Now that the democrats are in charge, I can see this extended to all sorts of recruitement efforts. So as much as I think military service is nobel and has value for those who choose to serve, I actually agree that giving access to transcripts and other information should be opt-in.

The opt-in/opt-out processes are convoluted and different as kittyv notes. We didn't want our children to have information (pictures with their names) posted on websites and noted on a form one year. The school district used this to not publish anything about our children including when they made honors and they weren't listed in the student directories either. I do believe that most districts have an all/nothing approach so contact your district to make sure you understand how their policies are implemented.

What I found interesting is we specifically wrote that published information was ok, unless is was on the internet with a picture and their name listed.

Thanks for the information, Kitty. I served in the military but it certainly wasn't due to the cronies that came to my high school. My God they were obnoxious! I made the decision on my own after discussing it with my parents because my father had also served & I wanted his opinion on the matter. I feel the recruiters should stay away from high schools. Even more offensive is the way the military targets the poor, minority neighborhoods. Ah, the poor, black & disenfranchised fighting the rich white mans war... can we call that sub-contracting?

Kitty - Good Post! I am concerned about the way private companies, military, government and now schools are requiring me to say I don't want something in order to stop them from automatically doing something. It's along the lines of selling my information to third-party vendors, making laws that allow people to solicit me on my minutes-purchased cell phone and a list of other things that are surfacing in this consumerism age. We are losing our freedom and right to privacy and it will cost us. One doesn't need look too far into the past to understand this.

BirchBricker - Recruiters should stay away from schools if for no other reason than they prey on minors who cannot legally sign a contract. When this is pointed out, recruiters often threaten those who attempt to change their minds.

I also take umbrage at the notion that the government bribes poor kids by offering to fund their education, but only if she or he will risk their life for eight years (minus stop-loss extensions). It's immoral and discriminatory.

Skeptic: I agree. I was just saying that the guys that came to my school were far from enlightening. You're also right about the recruiters threatening people. I wasn't sure which branch to join when I was deciding & there was a lot of presssure on all sides to be with them. They're grown men preying on the dreams of the young with lies & empty promises. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed my time in the service... but I was 21 when joined & had a bit less naive than the guys who were 17 or 18 & had never left NYC. I'd be pretty pissed if some pencil pushing E-5 lied to my daughter & failed to live up to his promises. Then again I believe my daughter would confer with me before doing anything. Unfortunately many teenagers don't have a Dad.

BB, where do you reside? Your comments appear to be from someone living in Watts, you know east LA.

Here is one... a new law for a World controlled by Laws...let just outlaw "War" any where on the planet. Then we would not have to worry about recruitment policies. Seems simple!

BB and others...

I find it interesting your take on recruiters. You generally don't like to lump all, by the actions of some, yet you seem to be doing that here. I spent 3 years as a Navy Recruiter, in the Tustin, Irvine and other areas of Orange County, CA in the late '70s. I neither lied nor fabricated stories to do my job. I presented information and provided opportunities. I worked predominately with 4 high schools. Tustin, Irvine, Mater Dei and a continuation high. Note the 1st three I mention are in higher income, predominately white areas or a private Catholic school. Most of my time, because of my particular specialty, I gave talks in science classes, at the invitation of the teachers, on nuclear power plants.

Are there recruiters as you describe? Of course...there are humans of all walks of life as you describe, but I don't consider all humans to be of this nature.

Well, this is a complicated subject. As a nation we have decided we want an all-volunteer military. No draft. As citizens we also value - some more than others - the security provided by a strong, all-volunteer military.

The reality is military recruiters are competing with other recruiters for the attention of high school graduates. My 18-year-old son has received all sorts of mailers, phone calls and even an unsolicited personal visit by a Marine recruiter. He has received thousands of letters and e-mails from colleges, too. My wife and I both enlisted in the Navy back in the day and as a result have already talked to all of our children about the recruiting process in particular and military service in general. None of our children is interested in military service at this point in time. We haven't discouraged them but with two wars on we haven't been pushing them hard to look at the military, either.

I personally don't have a problem with the military reaching out to minors as colleges do in trying to solicit qualified applicants. No other national-level organization besides the U.S. military is a major employer of high school graduates. How else can the military reach potential members if not through outreach activities up to and including visits to high schools and direct mail and phone solicitations? TV, radio and print ads alone are insufficient, I'm sure.

My wife and I were not recruited out of high school (we joined after some college) but I certainly remember the recruiters making their pitches to all of us at school assemblies. Back then we completed the ASVAB on school time; I don't think that's the case anymore. I remember receiving direct mailers and even calls at home from recruiters when I was in HS. I'm not sure that NCLB has made the process more tintrusive than it was thirty years ago. They were certainly able to find us then.

Back to the point. If we all believe we need a military and we want that military to be all volunteer then we need to support recruiting efforts because there is no other way to reach the numbers needed to sustain the military's manpower levels.

To the charge that bonuses and college assistance programs etcetera are discriminatory I ask what would you use instead to make the numbers? For a century the U.S. military has been a way up and out of economic despair for untold millions. During the all volunteer days that's perhaps even more true. Yes, there's risk. But there's reward. And how else ciould we fill the ranks of an organization that has an inherently high turnover rate and which can't compete on salary?

My recruiter was 100% truthful. After graduating from boot camp I had the privilege of going back and working in the recruiiting office where I signed up for a few months in a program to tap military members with recent local knowledge to assist the recruiters. I found from this in-depth look that the the recruiting staff as a whole was as professional and honest as my recruiter. And I will never forget the stories the crusty old YNC who led the office told about charging around the Pacific as a young member of Admiral Halsey's Third Fleet staff!

I say talk to your kids. Help them sort out what they get from recruiters, colleges and elsewhere. If they don't have parents to help them with this (or who are not involved) then they have to grow up and make their own decisions early. They will have to do this anyway. Don't further constrain recruiters. For every one who lies and dissembles there are many more who are aggressive but honorable. Work to keep the process honest but please...unless you have a better answer...don't make it more difficult than it already is.

Thank you for all of the responses, they are all excellent and I especially appreciate the personal stories and input, and the civility! Observer, I agree, and I am weary of it too. A couple of replies -

Timeslip – the concern you expressed, is this what you mean? In May 2005, DOD disclosed after questions had been raised that they had been creating a massive database of information on children for recruitment purposes, and currently have input info on more than 30 million young adults. It’s called the Joint Advertising and Marketing Research & Studies (JAMRS). You are now able to opt out your child, or your child can do so, from this database after a lawsuit http://www.nyclu.org/node/130 , but be aware that they will not be removed, just placed in a “suppression” file. www.defense.gov/sites/jamrs_survey_optout.html

Rolandmc – I did not include horror stories of recruiters and their tactics because I felt it would be unfair, and everyone can express a personal experience which would say the contrary. I don’t consider them the norm, but there are numerous videos on YouTube of visits from recruiters on hidden camera which would anger you. I have no doubt of this, as I believe you are an honest man who did not use these dishonest tactics, nor did other good men you knew. I was not trying to disparage the military or recruiters, this is to inform parents.

Miuwtant – I appreciate your perspective. Please note, you have the benefit of prior military service, past experience as a recruiter, and a two parent household. No recruiter is going to pull the wool over your family’s eyes, in other words. If my son wants to join the military and is under 18, we will speak with a recruiter TOGETHER, on our terms. I will not tolerate coming home from work and finding an uninvited stranger in my home or continuously calling to try to convince my minor son to join, also having no idea what he has been telling him in my absence. (You stated that your son has received phone calls and an unsolicited visit, did these continue despite his expressed decision to them that he was not interested? Just curious, I heard that’s a problem.) Before this, student’s information was obtained when the minor took the ASVAB and a statement was signed agreeing to the release of their information in order to obtain their score, or through career days, etc. Now your permission is given whether you knew it or not. This provision should be presented straightforward to the parent, because the information is being sent without specific expressed consent. Why is this in a law that is supposed to be about education standards – how exactly does “hand over your student’s personal information to military recruiters or you’ll lose federal funding” fit in to that? NCLB 9528 is most definitely more intrusive then previous methods, and is a violation of family privacy rights. My child’s telephone number, address, description, photo, should not be released by the school without prior written parental consent. Blanket Opt Out forms must be changed because it is unfair to the student. Separate check boxes for military recruiters, colleges, employers, publications – a parent or the student themselves can check yes or no. Why do you feel knowing and controlling who gets your child’s private info is a bad thing and an unfair disadvantage to recruiters, unless you believe ignorance of this happening is something that should be exploited? Frankly I feel a form like the one I suggest IS one solution, which you call for in your last sentence.

You state we should support recruiting efforts because of the low military manpower levels. I realize it looks as though we will continue these years of war, and a draft is probable. However, these volunteer numbers are low because of the Iraq War and what we now know are the facts, how we see our soldiers and veterans being treated by our government, promises of more endless wars, and the list just goes on from there. That is what hurts recruiters, and that is what will have to change to encourage more voluntary enlistment.

Just curious Kitty, how did this information come to you? Where did you find or receive this reference? Have you checked its validity?

Deja_View - Yes, it's valid. http://www.ed.gov/policy/elsec/leg/esea02/pg112.html#sec9528

I posted some other links in both the blog and the comments. All of it is true. There are some bills which have been submitted in the last couple months regarding this issue, one seeks to restrict schools from providing the information as an "opt in" -

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h111-1091&tab=summary

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-87&tab=summary

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1026

I found out through a conversation with someone who told me about it, and I started doing the research from there.