Rational_Thinker,

ALL of my posts are listed under the name of bcapp1, and I sign all of them with my real name. Now, I'm glad that you have resolved to be "civil and rational in my debate" - thank you.

Sincerely,

Robert Capp

ps. Will we see you at Starbucks on Tuesday? It certainly can be the most fun you can legally have inside the city limits on a Tuesday. ; >)

This is a great start my friend. This is the only moniker that I use, other than my actual name on postings dealing with education. I hope that others will respond to you in a positive way.

I use but one moniker, this one. On occasion I will accidentally post under my father's pseudonym "Gulliver".

R_T, a fine example...the one and only Rolandmc. I am and always will be Roland.

This confession was posted at 9:08 a.m. on March 9. Just a little over a half-hour earlier Rational_Thinker made this comment on an LTE:

"On 3/9/09 at 08:33 AM, Rational_Thinker wrote:

Shirley, your entire argument relies upon the position that homosexuality is genetically pre-determined and impossible for someone stuck with that gene to prevent.

I have known a number of left handed people and no matter how hard they tried, they could not write with their right hand worth a darn. It didn't just feel wrong, they could not do it.

On the other hand, I have have known a number of people who were straight, and then were seduced into homosexuality during a time of drug and alcohol abuse. Based on my observations in life, I think that homosexuality is a choice. Not a good choice, but people often make bad choices in their life, and then find it hard to get out of the lifestyle they have adopted.

Where is your scientific data, irrefutable data, that homosexuality is genetically pre-determined?"

If he is committed to be more rational in his debate then I hope the days of comments like this one on gays are over. He offered his own questionable anecdotes and no data to support his position and then challenged the letter writer to post irrefutable scientific data. That's not rational at all. As a result that is the standard I will now enforce for rational placer democrat. Anything less than ***irrefutable scientific data*** from him will get called out by me. And I welcome the same microscope applied to information I post.

On to monikers.

As everyone who has been paying attention knows, I have only used "Miuwtant" since the new AJ system came into being. Before that I only used my first name, Bob.

While I respect Robert Capp's desire that everyone post using their full real names I will not. I don't want what I write to be used against my wife when she looks for work. Or against my kids. I don't want my family to be at risk from some nut who decides he wants to "take out the opposition" with a weapon more powerful than a PC. I may need to look for work myself some day and don't want employers to make a judgment based on my participation in an opinion forum. For those reasons I choose to remain anonymous but I have a code. I will only post under one name, and anything I say about myself or personal stories I share, etc., are as true as my memory can make them. I will also only post facts I believe are supported by mainstream data sources (government, respected private sources like Gallup, respected mainstream news outlets, etc.) or which rely on direct data such as video, transcripts or other verifiable information. I will also do my best to be polite and respectful. I have crossed that boundary a few times and have apologized for it.

While I applaud this confession and the previous apology by Rational_Thinker to gulliver for name calling I will take a wait-and-see approach to his commitment to be truly civil and rational because of his long history of being neither. Meanwhile, I'll continue to follow my code and post fewer in-your-face pieces (such as the Bobby Jindal stuff). I hope that other moderates lead more of the discussion (see my recent blog with this request) instead of the same people who tend to only post polarizing pieces.

RT - since the switch from the old site to the new I have only posted under this moniker. As I have previously pointed out, AJ policy does not limit the number of monikers one can use and it doesn't make any difference to me how many names you think you need to post under in an attempt to get your point across. Nevertheless, there is sweet irony in the fact that you seem slightly obsessed with accusing others of posting under multiple aliases yet you were the one actually caught doing it.

This is an excerpt from one of my posts to you about a year ago when we all welcomed "loomisresident" to the AJ blogosphere and you warned loomis to be prepared for the "lefties" to give him a hard time...I believe that my response to you then still holds true today:

****************************

"Rational - people don't give you a hard time because of your politics, they give you a hard time because you often act like an arrogant, pompous, ass. loomis won't have any trouble espousing his/her conservative beliefs on this site because he/she appears to possess manners. Try giving the inflammatory, incendiary rhetoric a break instead of constantly painting a big target on your back and then crying when you get shot down.

Suffice to say that your style is often aggressively incendiary...which is OK if that is how you wish to express yourself. But, being "that guy" has it's price. You can't constantly go about intentionally pissing people off and then whine when you get pissed on. Well, I suppose you can, because you do, just don't expect much sympathy."

*****************************

In your post you state that you will try to be "more civil and rational" in style. This is a promise you have made many times in the past following some transgression on your part but in short order you typically revert to what has become your trademark style...sarcastic, insulting, and often mean-spirited.

If you feel that you need to change your style and become a "kinder, gentler" RT then I wish you all the best in your transformation...If you are only changing your style because you fear ostracization from this community, I recommend that you nix the metamorphosis and take pride in the character you have developed: The irascible, curmudgeonly conservative that Placer liberals love to hate but could never ignore.

Whichever path you choose, I wish you all the best in your journey of self-improvement.

Miuwtant,

Your anonymity is perfectly understandable.

R_T's phony "confession," however, is nothing of the sort. As usual, he simply blames others for his own use of multiple personalities, exonerating himself with "they did it first so I did it, too." As for R_T ever remaining civil and rational - - I remain Skeptical.

My fellow bloggers - I prefer to stay mysterious although I have entertained the idea of a "bloggers picnic". Miuwtant is a prudent man and I agree with his logic. I never got too chummy with fellow employees for the very reasons he states. Being open with my ideology has cost me dearly in the workplace because honestly, alot of people are shallow and clueless - usually the ones who have deep emotional and moral problems and see themselves as ok. I am not completely ok and I know it and don't mind stating so. It is transparent, which in itself is a good thing, but only serves as a weapon in the hands of the ignorant.

Rational - Thank you for coming clean. It takes courage. Observer is and has been my only moniker. The real surprise about me would come only with a meeting with the other bloggers. I do hope that takes place. Can't be there on Tuesday, although I wasn't invited but hope to in the future.

Skeptic, are you saying you have only posted under one name?

Miuwtant: With regard to the LTE on homosexuality, there is nothing wrong with relying upon anecdotes where no proof exists. I am arguing that there is no proof, and thus anecdotal evidence is the only practical way to debate. On the other hand, Shirley makes an assertion that suggests she has proof. I was asking for it. If in fact, we are both relying upon our opinions and anecdotal evidence, that is fine as well. Lets not grant rights to people based on anecdotal evidence. That is my fundamental point. The fact you disagree with it, does not make it irrational.

Skeptic, Since that last comment ended up changing tracks, I will give you a dedicated opportunity to tell us all that you only use one name. Here it is.

Bob Capp: Thanks for the offer but even though your intentions are honest and honorable, I will not be making scheduled meetings over the internet. Its not a prudent thing to do IMHO.

"I am arguing that there is no proof, and thus anecdotal evidence is the only practical way to debate."

What is your proof that there is no proof??? ANECDOTE!!! Your argument is a joke.

Miuwtant,

As you may have noticed, I have stopped the campaign for "outing" one's self and realize that it is a lost cause of my own making.

Now, Miuwtant, Skeptic, Bastiat, Gulliver, Rolandmc, Acadian, Joszef_Pelican, Loomisresident, Rational_Thinker, Chuxxr, Auntie_Ballistic, pollywog, kittyv, GailBegin, LantBarney, Thos. Payne, Mr. Sleep, Nashgrumbler, JackSanchez, fourgen,Jayber, Salamander, Observer, BirchBricker, AnInconvientPost, skimammoth, common_sense and ALL others, will you meet and have a coffee with gregcalac and myself - it may be the most fun you can legally have in Auburn on a Tuesday. Come and use your nom-dePlume and you won't have to worry about being outed! Please reply soon, and Mr. Calac will post the time to meet @ Starbucks, and I'll be sure to post it here later today as well.

OK, maybe you weren't being irrational. Just dishonest or lazy because you ignore information from sources that don't come to the conclusion you want. Like this one which describes a scientific study that indicates being gay could be a result of genetics.

http://www.webmd.com/sex-relationships/news/20050128/is-there-gay-gene

Same story cross-posted at: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145754,00.html

Yep, Fox News, no less.

I don't have a dog in this hunt other than to keep you honest. It's pretty much a full time job.

Bob,

What time? I might be at work :(

Bob Capp,

Let me know the time. My schedule is erratic but I don't have a problem with your idea. I'm not a public figure and i don't fear this crowd at Starbucks.

Joszef_Pelican, Miuwtant et al,

I've asked gregcalac to let me know the time we can meet @ Starbucks, then I'll pass that along here on this very post later today. Please check back right here.

Miuwtant,

I too have nothing to fear of this crowd, I believe that we are men and women of great convictions, passions, beliefs and morals. But most of all, of courage and honor.

"So, first of all, let me assert my firm belief that the only thing we have to fear is fear itself—nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance.", okay - I stole that from President FD Roosevelt - March 4, 1933 (First Inaugural Address)

bcapp1 - Lant Barney is my name and I will be happy to join you for a cup of coffee, although I have a noon meeting in Roseville.

R_T, Thanks for this post and your honesty. I have only posted under one name. I am a "New" comer to this blogging so I am do not have much experience with the past posts. I have honestly put forth my opinions and have several times "Asked for a honest" lets not damn the writer or messenger and stay on topic. Any way, If I may ask the other posters here? What StarBucks are you talking about? May I attend and if we all show up? How will we know one another?

Mitchell,

The Starbucks at Elm street Center (Near Longs, Gottchalks, etc.) and I will post the time right here on this post later today. I do hope that you can make it. We can call each other by our log-on names or whatever you want to be called. I'll be hanging around drinking a soda and using the name Bob Capp.

Sincerely,

Robert Capp

Hope and change are good things... and the truth will set you free and maybe the "team spirit" is not gone... and this will be the beginning of something wonderful.

I have a confession to make... my name isn't really BirchBricker... it's Birch Bricker. I'm sorry I led everyone on. The fact is... I have a first & last name. I'm just not cool enough to have one, like Bono, Madonna or Prince (or whatever he's calling himself nowadays). You may all call me Birch, Mr. Bricker, Mr. Birch, Birch Aaron Bricker, Señor Brickero, or any variation on that theme. I knew it was wrong & I did it anyways. Forgive me.

I too would like to swing by Starbucks (even though they're supporters of Israel & it pains me to set foot near there). Let us know what time. Thanks, & have a good one.

Anyone notice that septic isn’t going for the new honesty in bogging program?

I would love to be there but I have to be at work at 10:00. If it is early, we will see.

Okay all, Starbucks at the Elm Street Center (across the parking lot from Longs and Gottchalks) @ 3:00pm. All bloggers are invited - gregcalac and I will be there, no need to use your real name, just show up and look around for a middle-age white guy drinking soda and looking somewhat overweight. (that's me) and answering to "Bob"

It certainly can be the most fun you can legally have inside the city limits on a Tuesday. ; >)

Hope to see all of you there,

Robert Capp

Birchbricker,

Bring your own thermos full of beverage and join us at 3:0PM. We can sit outside so you can bring a large cooler if necessary. Just kidding! ;-)

Bob Capp,

Nice work rounding up an angry pitchfork wielding mob that will descend upon the local Starbuck's tomorrow. I hope they don't mind a few pitchforks interspersed with their normal flotsum.

See you there at 3:0P. I'll be the one with the big smile sitting alone outside wearing a U.S. Border Patrol hat!

Oh man, you mean Birch could be there if we go at, say, 8:0AM? Maybe we should rethink this time so he can be there.

Mitchell,

Maybe I'll bring a little sign that says "A.J. bloggers unite"!

I believe we'll sit outside so if there are any smokers they can smoke, and it will probably be less crowded than inside at that time of day.

Honestly, we'll play it by ear. Just look for a bunch of dudes looking shifty!

Speaking of shifty, has anyone heard if skeptic or Ishmael might surface?

lantbarney,

we'll get in and get out so you can make your Roseville meeting at noon. I also have a meeting to attend at 10:30A.

Honestly, I would love to see all those folks who Bob Capp listed above, and any others who might like to come and share a cup of coffee.

Bob, what do you say we change that time to 8:00AM?

gregcalac,

The time makes no difference to me - you make the call.

Robert Capp

No. Nevermind... another blogger was using my computer. That wasn't me. I can meet at 3, but 8 is fine. I am, however, sworn to secrecy as to who the other blogger is.

Hint... she's Catholic.

Greg: Lol! I just got the "large cooler" thing. Ha! It won't be nessary... I'll already be hammered by then.

3 is better for me vs. the morning. But if you all decide to meet in the am, well then I will just have to catch the next coffee/soda clatch.

Starbucks - Elm Street Plaza @ 15:00?

Skeptic and everyone else,

Tomorrow @ 3:00pm or 1500hours (whichever come first) we will meet @ Starbucks at the Elm Street Plaza near Longs and Gottchalks. We'll be outside sipping on soda/coffee or whatever and it will be fun to "put a human next to a name"

I really hope to see as many of you that can make it,

Bob

skeptic,

ten four, 1500 hrs.

Roger, roger.

bcapp - Thanks for inviting me! I am mostly a lurker here. I mostly try to stay out of the fray because i tend to get my feelings hurt too easily- but I am very tempted to show up tomorrow. or maybe i will just lurk across the parking lot with binoculars...

Wow, a bloggers meeting. I'm there. I will be the middle-aged woman with three kids in tow, we happen to have a band rehearsal then a video shoot over at the Club Car at 12:30pm. I'm not sure if they need an "audience" for the video, but come on by if you want to audition as an extra. Maybe if they need an authentic bar brawl scene the Dems and Repubs can go at it for the cameras.

Gail,

Lest there be any confusion, we're meeting at 3:OP.

Greg: Thanks. 3pm We will be done by then and will come on over.

Wasn't the original invitation from grecalac to RT and bcapp. I think Greg wanted to personally talk to RT. Anyway a bloggers picnic is a fine idea but all bloggers here should be invited. I suggest no booze and no discussions about volatile issues like um, everything we talk about.

RT , I feel that your PD character was out of line. Not even close to the reality of many of us on the left. It is insulting to women, single moms, schoolteachers, lesbians and most of us as well. The problem is it that it promotes a negative stereotype and debases the merits of anyone who may be like the character in all so many ways.

I must say this or I will be remiss. Some people especially those questioning their sexuality may be seduced by someone of the same sex. That shouldn’t be confused with being raped by a sexual predator. Without help the victim may become one his/herself. That is far from the gays or lesbians none of whom I know are child molesters.

You should hookup with Greg. Without doubt he offers a helping hand and some sage advice that may be of some interest to you. What have you got to lose?

Sorry, I wrote my comment earlier and just posted it now.

ChuxxR,

All bloggers are invited and will be welcomed. We are meeting @ 3:00pm at Starbucks in the Elm Street Shopping Center (near Longs and Gottchalks) - I hope to see you there.

Sincerely,

Robert Capp

ChuxxR,

Try to make it tomorrow if you can.

I'm not sure what it will be like, but I'm hoping it will be fun for everyone who shows up. I know I'll have fun regardless of anything else because one of my most dominant faults is incurable optimism and a true love for people.

We spend a lot of time chatting in cyberspace and although this atmosphere is very freeing for the thought process, it can also be very impersonal. Impersonal to the point of insulting one another at times. That's why meeting some of you will be exciting to me. By meeting we'll be able to put some faces with the cyber-personalities that have emerged over a long period of time.

I know most of us make some real attempts at holding the line on nastiness, there are others who have no problem crossing that undefined line with zero restraint. I can take that or leave it because I like to think I have thick skin. But mostly because I delude myself into thinking that for every negative, nasty remark that comes from one of us, there is also a lot of good that comes from our interaction.

So, tomorrow we can simply be people visiting with people, sharing a cup of coffee.

I hope I'm not the only one who regard many of you as more than just crazy folks with computers who rush home from work, or whatever, and join the fray on a daily basis!

It's times like these that I'm happy to be one of those crazy folks.

Love to sit and have a Koffe Klatch with a bunch of retired windbags, But I actually have to work for a living...have fun my beloveds, and don't OD on caffeine...bad for your aging systems...:)

Cra\\.... two employee's called in sick this morning, so I will be stuck in the office all day. Hope you all have a good time and keep me posted if we might do this again.

Auntie_B,

Too bad we won't have the pleasure (?) of your company today. What makes you think everyone who shows up today will all be retired windbags?

Hopefully, the wind will be of little consequence in this setting and we'll simply settle into something resembling civil discourse.

Sorry you won't be able to be there.

At three o'clock you might take a moment to ponder the scene over at Starbuck's and wonder which of the aforementioned windbags will be happily sipping coffee together, and peacefully exchanging pleasantries in the most basic of human exchanges, face to face conversation.

We can take up the mindless bickering again here in cyberspace later this afternoon/evening. ;-)

Windbags? Retired? Old? OK, whatever. I like being able to meet and do things with the people I chat with out in cyberspace ("Acadian" played the banjo with us for a fundraiser last month, that was a hoot) so come on down if you can take a break from work. Unless you all are too shy. ;-)

Windbag? Maybe. Retired? No. I just don't work on Tuesdays & Thursdays.

Thank you for the invite. Typically I would have to work anyway, but as it so happens I also have a nasty flu bug I doubt any of you would appreciate getting. In all honesty, I feel that while your intentions are good, you need to exercise some caution in doing this. There are some individuals, and a lovely couple, whom I would enjoy meeting; there are some I'd only want to see their face so I could give them a wide berth if I saw them around town, and I have no interest in them knowing who I am. Gail, because of this, IMHO I feel I should say to you that you may want to save bringing the kids for the next meeting, after you see what this first one is about and who shows up. But as a mom, you know best so I hope you don't mind my advice. I don't feel anyone who has already confirmed is someone to worry about, but let's not forget the invite says to just show up.

R_T - I think I'll wait for either the sincere apology where you aren't merely trying to divert the attention from yourself to skeptic, or better, wait to see if you really do change despite the fact that this is not the first time you've had to do this.Your posts as placer_democrat offended me and I have already pointed out why numerous times. Personally, I feel you should take Bastiat's advice and be yourself, and use one moniker. You will only get caught again if you don't, maintaining a lie is a lot more work than just being truthful.

KittyV: What is worry about meeting over at the Starbucks? Should we alert the police? "Hello, bloggers from the AJ are going to meet to have coffee, you had better have some units nearby in case a fight breaks out." Maybe this is why it would be best if people use their real names and only say things they would say to other people's faces on these cyberspace blogs. I have a suspicion that the only people who are going to show at this coffee clatch with be the people with real names anyway. Fine with me.

kittyv,

Too bad you are still under the weather.

This meeting today will be the ultimate, or possibly, the anti-climactic, gathering where all notions of horns and fire breathing will be dispelled!

I'm so sorry you won't be able to make it! ;-) Get well girl!

That's sage advice you gave to Gail. You never know who among this crazed group might whip out a couple bucks and force her kids to drink something sweetened with Aspertame! Augh! We'll report the ugliness at the end of the day.

That's OK, we live on Aspertame and all the other additives out there. And I just thought, I would rather be at Starbucks WITH my kids and the whole lot of you crazed people than send them off to school everyday. But which environment is safer is yet to be seen, we will report back, or it will appear here on the Journal as "breaking news" in a few hours, "Fight Goes Bad at the Starbucks on Elm." Now we are off to the library...

I have to take my daughter from school to a medical appointment in Auburn at 3:15 today but will try to drop by Starbucks afterwards for a few minutes if you are all still there at around 4:00 or a little later. If the klatch breaks up before I can get there I hope you all enjoy yourselves and I will plan on making a future get-together if one is planned. I would like to meet everyone. I will be in jeans and an olive polo shirt and will use my first name, Bob. I won't be wearing a Capp, though. :)

Miuwtant,

I'm probably going to hang around there at Starbuck's for at least two hours regardless of who shows up.

That is, unless I've been hooked and booked for illegal assembly or disturbing the peace! Our Barney Fife cops are probably right now strapping on their riot gear after receiving word of this impending rumble.

It was so much fun to meet you all! What a good-looking group of people, sitting out there in the beautiful afternoon enjoying some great company. Thank you Robert and Greg for setting it up. It was so nice to see you, Lant. And Gail - I love the CD. It's so much fun! The kids' voices add such a great flavor to those familiar tunes.

Yes, we all met and had a great time. I left a little before the whole group broke up, so I am not sure if a brawl broke out after we left. ;-) It was great to meet everyone and put faces to the names. Glad you liked the CD, jayber. We perform live a lot so I need to keep you posted so you can come down and see us sometime. Thanks to Birch for letting my youngest walk your cute puppie around, she and the dog had fun, I think.

So there you have it! Our first AJ bloggers' convention. Next time let's get the rest of you to turn out, we don't bite. ;-)

Gail, jayber,

I posted a blog that described my feelings about today's get together at Starbuck's.

What a fun gathering we had!

Thanks to Bob Capp for supporting the idea from the first utterance. ;-)

Lots of fun. Great to see you again too, Jayber. Fife should have had a different first name.

Once again, sorry to have missed the meeting, sounds like fun was had by all in attendance.

I started posting on the AJ site sometime last May or so, I have always posted under loomisresident and don't see a reason to change it unless I move. If you ever see a post by ElkCityResident in this pages that will be me, my wife would have agreed to move, however, you won't see many posts, I'll be very busy hunting, fishing, kayaking, rafting, horseback riding and enjoying the great outdoors in the great State of Idaho, then I will be a very happy retired windbag as A_B likes to call us..

I would be very content with a more civil site, I realize that there are many differences of opinions but they can be expressed without resorting to name calling. I have a very good friend, we have known each other for over 40 years, his political leanings are 180 degrees from mine although with age we seem to be meeting in the middle somewhere. We can discuss any subject without creating rancor or insulting each other. And that my friends, is the way I would like to see it here.

You all have a great day, enjoy the weather but pray for some more rain.

Gail - I wasn't referring to a fight actually, not sure where you got that impression from my comment, but maybe it's because others alluded to it? Either way, I meant no offense and I'm sorry you took it that way.

for gregcalac - Aspartame is hazardous to your health. FDA approval was rescinded until the then Searle CEO, ...drumroll....Donald Rumsfeld, (also original patent holder) being a man with influence, forced it to be approved. Hawaii plans on banning it completely, watch for it to be removed from the approved list if whomever Obama appoints as FDA Commissioner has a conscience. (wink)

It was a nice gesture to have the meeting, it sounds like a pleasant experience for all those who attended. Oh, and by the way, I only post as kittyv, I didn't state that earlier but I'd hope no one thought otherwise in the first place!

kiityv,

Thanks for your comments about Aspartame. Actually, I hope you realize I was just kidding around with you and Gail.

You are both protective of children, but in very different ways.

Although different, the basic desire for your child's safety is the same.