...all I know is that it always makes me sad to see any life cease to be. Even a blade of grass struggles to wards the light, so that it too might exist. I am not sure what a fanatical pro-lifer is but I have had some severe criticism because I can not support war-mongers just because they say they are pro-life. Babies, even at the tiniest stages of life are beautiful to me. I feel bad for them when they are unwanted, but I can't force someone else to see what I see, however I would still try to encourage someone not to abort a child. There are many who would take that child and raise it themselves.

I feel bad for homosexuals because regardless of what it is, they love who they love. Humans are made for companionship and need each other. This makes it very difficult, I am sure, for them to find peace in this world, at this time. I am glad it is not up to me to judge others...

While I'm somewhat ambivalent about the abortion issue I am always happy to see a rebel giving the higher-ups hell. I completely agree with Fr. Gravel that all too often the Church is hijacked by fanatical, far right zealots that make Catholicism look nutty. "Hijacked" isn't really the right word... "run by" is probably a better way to put it.

There are way too many types of people in the Catholic Church to fit the one mold that EWTN (An idiotic Catholic TV channel) wants Catholics to be. The beauty of the Church lies in the differences... a robotic, zombie army would hardly challenge the intellect or feed the soul.

To all the priests & sisters that buck the system & give the hierarchy something to think about: Benedicat vos omnipotens Deus Pater, et Filius, et Spiritus Sanctus. Amen.

Birch,

I'm not Catholic, so this truly is a sincere question. Why would a follower of Christ and priest in the Catholic Church advocate a Pro-choice stance, given the doctrine of the church and also the polity? It is difficult to understand that concept - please enlighten me.

Thanks,

Robert Capp

Birch:

Jesus said nothing about abortion or homosexuality, although both were practiced. That's how important they were to him.

The `soul' has not always been considered as a single and inseparable entity, either - as is now believed by the Roman Church. In "De Anima" Aristotle (384- 322 BC) decided there were several different kinds of souls. Humans, of course, had a divine soul that only entered the body after the fetus was fully formed. He placed human ensoulment at forty days after quickening for males and at eighty days for females. Thomas Aquinus embraced Aristotle's theory and further stated that human life only started 40 days after conception. He was guessing.

In 1869 Pope Pius IX declared that the soul entered the body at the moment of conception and therefore abortion was murder, punishable with excommunication and death. Pius also declared himself infallible in 1869, so nobody could question how he developed his theory on ensoulment. Pius also pronounced the Immaculate Conception of Mary, declared it to be official Christian dogma under his own infallible self-authority, with no questions asked. On the plus side, Pius abolished the law requiring Jews to attend Christian services.

Christian sects apparently still cannot agree exactly when 'ensoulment' takes place: from the moment an ovum is fertilized (Catholics and Christo-fundys) to twenty-one days following birth (Eastern Orthodox). Judaism places ensoulment at the first breath. Jesus was a Jew and his people wrote the book, so they ought to know.

Ensoulment at the moment conception is not genuinely Jewish or Christian at all, but probably originated in Alexandria under Egyptian-Greek philosophical influence. Given that to Jews abortion does not equate to murder, if the fetus threatens the mother's life or her sanity, abortion is a requirement - not a choice.

I have just doubled my donations to Lifesitenews. Thanks for the rant , Father.

This dissenting priest unfortunately gets a lot of media attention and causes great scandal in the Canadian church. Why he is even still actively involved in the Catholic priesthood is beyong me - his views totally contradict Our Lord's and Catholic teaching. Instead of causing division in the Church, why doesn't he do the honourable thing and leave - go join some politically-correct "do as you please" church. There are plenty to go around. Pride and disobedience are of the Devil. This man is compromising his salvation unless he repents.

"

Another heretic creating his own religiion. The reason he is still a priest is due to the wildly radical leftist lavender mafia running the Vatican. Before Vatican II this guy would have never become a priest with those diabolical views. Unfortunately for him he has probably excommunicated himself several times over. Just because of his tirade I'm going to donate a bunch of money to LifeSiteNews and get others to do the same. Nice work padre. Thanks to heretics like you the Church will clean itself up eventually and you'll get launched. Better run along now while you can before you get really humiliated.

Hmmm, what does God have to say about homosexuality? Let's try Romans 1:24-32. Thanks, heretic, for once again confirming God's word through our beloved St. Paul. You've made yourself exactly conform to what was explicitly predicted. Convert while there is still time.

Robert: Many Catholics have their own view on politics. This was clearly shown in the last election when the Church went to great pains to get everyone to vote for McCain... they didn't. 58% of Catholics voted for Obama.

The Republicans constantly lie to Catholics about wishing to 'do something" about the Roe v. Wade but they know that they need abortion legal. It's a golden egg to then as they know they can get votes from unassuming Catholics that listen to pundits from the pulpit.

Many priests are for women becoming priests & they are sometimes excommunicated for this position. See Fr. Bourgeois.

I'm all for a man speaking his mind regardless of the consequences. I'm sure Fr. Gravel knows that punishment will follow but I'm glad e said something. While I may or may not agree with his politics I do appreciate his dissension.

Catholics are not robots. Not everyone bows down in awe of Mother Angelica & her cronies at EWTN. That group should be ashamed of themselves... I believe that it is they that are really causing damage to the Church.

Fr. Gravel will probably just move into a different church & this is our loss. We need more passionate priests... not rote administrators (see Fr. Dare at St. Josephs in Auburn). He'll be some one else's gain, I'm sure.

We always need rebels who aren't afraid to preach a Gospel of change. A long time ago there was a man who was discredited & shunned for his attempt to overthrow the established norm & give people a reason to live outside of the mindless & soul-less law. He & his followers were persecuted for their beliefs. I'm not saying that Fr. Gravel is of this caliber but we always need rebels to keep the faith from degenerating into a pitiless & superstitious sea of angry dogma.

To all the above Catholics: Consider that you should pray for r. Gravel's conversion... not his reprobation & punishment. Otherwise you are all Pharisees. Are you in need of repentance? Do you need God's guidance? I'm sure you do & if you do you should consider that Fr. Gravel is in need of your prayers. After all, Jesus said you should love your neighbor as yourself. Do you? If so I suggest you wish for him what you wish for yourselves... faith, hope & love.

Dominus Vobiscum

This priest is a bad shepherd leading people into Hell. He should be ashamed of himself for letting the Devil use him to promote baby killing and God only knows what else. The good thing is that God is merciful so I pray right now: Eternal Father, we offer the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Your Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ in reparation for the sins of the clergy who so much offend you. For the sake of His sorrowful Passion, have mercy on Fr. Raymond Gravel and on the whole world.

Amen

I just made a donation to LifeSiteNews.com for the good work that they do informing me of these kinds of stories. I am grateful Auburn and Fr. Gravel for making me aware that they accept donations. I never even thought of donating, but when I think of all the valuable news I get from that site over the years, I just had to send them something.

Ahhhh... the church police have arrived. Good thing because I'd like everyone to see how this works.... let the cries of heresy & the brow beatings begin! So many folks leave the Catholic Church due to this kind of dis-compassion, non-love, cliquishness & hypocrisy. I could guarantee that the above commentators are more than happy with war & the persecution of enemy classes.

Try & read Deus Caritas Est before some of you run your mouths with cries of hate.

Dear Birch Bricker and Skeptic: You seem a little confused. Don't you know that the Catholic Church is neither conservative or liberal. It's teachings come from Christ himself through the magisterium of the Church He founded on Peter (see historical record of apostolic successsion). This authority was conferred by Christ himself ( see Matt 16:18-19) in order to guide us in all Truth throughout the centuries until He returns. Knowing that men ARE fallible He gave the gift of Infalliblity ( ONLY in regards to Teachings concerning Faith and Morals ) to His visible representative the Pope so that we His children might be protected from error; from believing the wrong things. After all, He is trying to get us to Heaven to be with Him and also to give us fullness of life here. When we go against His teachings we hurt ourselves. In Luke 10:16 Jesus said in regards to this authority of His Church

"He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." May the Love and Mercy of God be with you.

Trimelda: Before you bring Satan into this try & read "The Moral Theology Of The Devil" by Fr. Thomas Merton.

I'm not confused, 2bsaint... I've worked as a Catechist for several years. There are varying schools of thought & just as many political persuasions within Catholicism.

If you'd like to know what heresy is... how about those asinine little statues of St. Joseph that folks bury in their yard to help the house "sell faster". Magic & superstition are mush more dangerous than any priests opinion.

"Much" more dangerous, not "mush". Excuse me.

BirchBricker,

There must be some back-story here that is not understood by this writer. It seems that the number of hits to this blog is extraordinary and must be attributed to some passions that aren't completely apparent. What are these people talking about? Again, I'm not Catholic so I truly don't understand this.

Sincerely,

Robert Capp

Robert: I've got to run... I'll answer your question in a few hours.

Birch,

Tell me today at Depoe Bay Coffee Co.

Robert Capp

Birch

Please do not compare this guy to Fr. Bourgeois, who was a leader in the anti-war Catholic movement and had the potential to solidify Catholics against war, had he not given in to temptation. I am not judging him because I know in real spiritual warfare, temptations are much more difficult for potential leaders.

Re: EWTN, why the hatred? I would not run it the same way exactly but I do enjoy Sister Wendy's show's and Father Corapi's homilies. The provide a service to those who cannot physically attend Mass and those who want to pray the Rosary, but cannot do it on their own. There are quite a few shows that I don't really care for but I don't watch them. I would pay extra for this channel if I had to because I believe that it provides a service that is good. You are free to start your own cable channel if you can do better and If I like it, then I would buy it as well. There are however, many channels that I am forced into buying as part of my basic package that I find truly objectionable, as I am sure you could guess, they are MTV, VH1, & E and ABC Family. I am forced to buy these channels, whether I block them or not and my cable money supports these channels and my household is listed as a viewer of these channels. EWTN's faults pale in comparison.

Re Lifesitenews This amount of vitriol expressed by this man for this small Canadian group is telling. It is supported by donations and he wants us to stop donating! Who in the hell does this man think that he is, telling me or anyone else where I will spend my own money or where I should go to get news about what my local (meaning Canadian) politicians and clergy and bishops are up to??? Have they lied about him? Then sue them. Are they supported by large corporate donations in return for good coverage or political manipulation? Then expose them. If lifesite provides a valuable service to its viewers and they support the service, what is the problem? Why does he hate freedom? Are they physically threatening him with violence? If he has no criminal charges to make against them, then he is just angry because he is faced with the prospect of people knowing his story, his actions and his agenda. Isn't he proud of who he is? Why is it a problem that everyone knows about him? Can't he justify his actions without criticizing others who may disagree?

If I was a Canadian, I would visit lifesite news to keep up to date on issues that mainstream news, would never cover. As an American, I quickly tire of reading about the pathetic Canadian bishops, when the American bishops are plenty pathetic enough for me!

Birch, I think you really need to do some searching on who is the counterculture rebel here. I think that Fr. Gravel is pretty mainstream, and it is lifesite and EWTN who are the rebels. But what do I know, I am just on old Catholic woman who lives in a shoe, with so many kids, she knows not what to do.

Dear Birch: Those catholics who bury statues of St. Joseph in order to sell their homes do so mostly out of ignorance. They were probably poorly catechized and don't understand the doctrine of the Communion of Saints properly. As far as the level of danger - THEY can be taught the tenets of the Faith and come to knowledge of the Truth if their hearts are open BUT a priest who holds such opinions that completely contradict the Teachings of Christ through His Church not only deludes himself but can take many unlearned souls with him. Remember Matt 26:31 "Strike the shepherd and the sheep will scatter".

2bsaint:

Nonsense. They are simply Catholics observing a hallowed Roman religious tradition.

In pre-Christian Rome, family households maintained statues of Lares, or lesser deities, to watch over their home. Each home usually had a small shrine - called a Lararium - set aside for the family Lar where offerings such as votive candles and prayers could be made. A Lar was thought to protect the family and keep it healthy and prosperous in exactly the same way Roman Catholics believe patron saints perform those same duties today. In fact, pagan Rome is where concept of Christian patron saints comes from. Read "Ancient Christian Magic: Coptic Texts of Ritual Power" by Meyer and Smith.

Legatus:

God created them male and female (animals, too), so at least HE has no problem with same-gender love. (Hey! Does that mean God is bisexual?)

Go back and read what I posted again. I said that "Jesus" never said a word about homosexuality. Paul had his own dark issues, that when denied caused him constant internal torment. Why would any normal person take sex advice from somebody like that?

And if the Pope knows anything about sex, he shouldn't.

BirchBricker:

Thanks for your post of 4/22/09 post at 10:2. Love that opening homily. In fact, I laughed so hard that I couldn't breathe, got a cramp in my stomach, spilled my coffee and fell right out of my chair.

My attorneys will be in touch to discuss damages.

;-)

Dear Birch: I guess we could go back and forth endlessly and you're probably done with this subject but there are a few points I feel are worth mentioning. First, you responded by making the argument that Catholics that bury those "asinine" statues in hopes of selling their homes faster are not ignorant but simply "observing a hallowed Roman religious tradition" which in your first response to my comment was "real heresy" as opposed to the dissenting opinions of an ordained priest. Well for those Catholics to be "observing" anything they would have to have knowledge and faith in the particular tradition. I ,too, am a catechist and am aware that most catholics cannot even name the Ten Commandments, the seven sacraments, or that the Mass they might even attend regularly is NOT a commemoration of the Last Supper but The actual sacrifice of Christ made present. I doubt most catholics burying St. Joseph statues are aware of their proper use of religious objects. By the way, they are only guilty of superstition when they expect that the object or statue itself will bring protection and blessings by its own power. In Catholicism, the use of these objects are meant to be an expression of faith in the intercessory prayers of those whom the object represents. And since the saints have been perfected in the image of Christ their prayers are powerful before God who provides the protection and the blessings. The saints are family and death doesn't separate us and so they can pray for us. As far as some Catholic practices and customs having pagan parallels or even roots is really a benign point because The Church in its divine wisdom has countered them by introducing Christ into them. God has conquered all that is false and replaced it with what is True and Good. That's why He calls himself the light in the darkness. " Behold I make all things new" (Rev 21:5). My last point is that the definition of Heresy is ... " the crime that a person commits, who after he has received the Christian faith and while still keeping the name christian, either denies or doubts some truth which was revealed by God and is taught by the Church as revealed. It is called Formal Heresy and is considered Mortal Sin if the person knows that his error is contrary to the Church's teaching, yet continues to hold it. If he doesn't know and is willing to submit to the authority of the Church (remember Matt 16) then its called Material Heresy and is NOT a sin unless the person suspects that he is wrong and neglects to find out the Truth. This is why I originally said to you that the Catholic Church itself is neither conservative nor liberal. If some of Her members hold opposing opinions then sadly they have placed themselves on the outside. It is said by some of the saints including Blessed Mother Teresa that These are whom Christ was thinking of when He said

" I Thirst " from the cross. For all of us I offer my humble prayers and for you, Birch Bricker, may His Peace be yours.

2bsaint: First of all... I said that burying the statue was asinine - I did not say it was a "hallowed Roman tradition". That was Skeptic. I am also familiar with what the Communion of Saints is.

I'm sure the rogue priest will be excommunicated if he does not repent of his position. He probably knows that too. My point is that many , if not most, Catholics fall short of living up to the Church's teachings. As I stated earlier... most American Catholics voted for Obama (I did not - I voted for Nader) even when they were all told not to do that. American Catholics are going to do what they're going to do & the more Rome pushes herself farther & farther into a little corner - she is going to lose members.

You are completely wrong when it comes to the idea that all Catholics are on the same page. Listen to wat's being said on EWTN & then read the latest issue of Commonweal. I think you will see two totally different worlds. Both being Catholic.

Thank you for the prayer.

Robert Capp: This debate is between two different sides of a fence. There are some Cattholics who seem to think that the abortion issue is the only issue & they make all their political opinions based on that belief. They will vote for someone who is a warmonger & a violator of human rights but so long as he claims to be "pro-life" he has their vote. It's crazy. It is my belief that if a person is going to be pro-life... fine. That should include war, injustice, economic slavery & even vegetarianism. That's pro-life.

It is a clear teaching of the Catholic Church that abortion is wrong unless the fetus poses a mortal threat to the mothers life. Then it may be removed. The priest in this article is way out of line will be dismissed pretty quickly, I'm sure.

My point in all this arguing is that the Church can not let herself be run soley by right wing, fanatic pro-lifers. The Church is the largest demographic on the planet & it should reflect all the members of the Body of Christ... not the few select. I am almost always behind rebels & people that dissent to the Magestarium (governing body of the Church) because I feel that the high ranking officers here & in Rome seem to have absolutely no idea what's going on in the world. Pope Benedict, for example, can't seem to open his mouth without outting his foot in it. I wonder how often he's been away fro the Vatican to see how it is that people live. Methinks he would be surprised.

Anyways, Robert... the far right makes so much noise within the Catholic Church that it's hard to hear anyone else. No one has a monopoly on God.

Vegetarianism???

Thanks Birch,

It now makes some sense - I think.

Robert Capp

momof11: I meant to say "animal rights". I am vegetarian. If folk are pro-life I believe that should include war, economic slavery, animal rights, etc.