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Some Thoughts from the Founders of this Nation-Happy Independence Day
By bcapp1

These quotes of the founding fathers will give you an overview of their strong moral and spiritual convictions which helped form the foundations of our nation and our government.

(taken from about.com)

George Washington

1st U.S. President

"While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian."

--The Writings of Washington, pp. 342-343.

John Adams

2nd U.S. President and Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Suppose a nation in some distant Region should take the Bible for their only law Book, and every member should regulate his conduct by the precepts there exhibited! Every member would be obliged in conscience, to temperance, frugality, and industry; to justice, kindness, and charity towards his fellow men; and to piety, love, and reverence toward Almighty God ... What a Eutopia, what a Paradise would this region be."

--Diary and Autobiography of John Adams, Vol. III, p. 9.

"The general principles on which the fathers achieved independence were the general principles of Christianity. I will avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of God."

--Adams wrote this on June 28, 1813, in a letter to Thomas Jefferson.

"The second day of July, 1776, will be the most memorable epoch in the history of America. I am apt to believe that it will be celebrated by succeeding generations as the great anniversary Festival. It ought to be commemorated, as the Day of Deliverance, by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty. It ought to be solemnized with pomp and parade, with shows, games, sports, guns, bells, bonfires and illuminations, from one end of this continent to the other, from this time forward forever."

--Adams wrote this in a letter to his wife, Abigail, on July 3, 1776.

Thomas Jefferson

3rd U.S. President, Drafter and Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed their only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are of the Gift of God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed, I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that His justice cannot sleep forever; That a revolution of the wheel of fortune, a change of situation, is among possible events; that it may become probable by Supernatural influence! The Almighty has no attribute which can take side with us in that event."

--Notes on the State of Virginia, Query XVIII, p. 237.

"I am a real Christian – that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ."

--The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.

John Hancock

1st Signer of the Declaration of Independence

"Resistance to tyranny becomes the Christian and social duty of each individual. ... Continue steadfast and, with a proper sense of your dependence on God, nobly defend those rights which heaven gave, and no man ought to take from us."

--History of the United States of America, Vol. II, p. 229.

Benjamin Franklin

Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Unites States Constitution

"Here is my Creed. I believe in one God, the Creator of the Universe. That He governs it by His Providence. That He ought to be worshipped.

That the most acceptable service we render to him is in doing good to his other children. That the soul of man is immortal, and will be treated with justice in another life respecting its conduct in this. These I take to be the fundamental points in all sound religion, and I regard them as you do in whatever sect I meet with them.

As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of morals and his religion, as he left them to us, is the best the world ever saw, or is likely to see;

But I apprehend it has received various corrupting changes, and I have, with most of the present dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble. I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and more observed; especially as I do not perceive, that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in his government of the world with any peculiar marks of his displeasure."

--Benjamin Franklin wrote this in a letter to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale University on March 9, 1790.

Samuel Adams

Signer of the Declaration of Independence and Father of the American Revolution

"And as it is our duty to extend our wishes to the happiness of the great family of man, I conceive that we cannot better express ourselves than by humbly supplicating the Supreme Ruler of the world that the rod of tyrants may be broken to pieces, and the oppressed made free again; that wars may cease in all the earth, and that the confusions that are and have been among nations may be overruled by promoting and speedily bringing on that holy and happy period when the kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ may be everywhere established, and all people everywhere willingly bow to the sceptre of Him who is Prince of Peace."

--As Governor of Massachusetts, Proclamation of a Day of Fast, March 20, 1797.

James Madison

4th U.S. President

"Cursed be all that learning that is contrary to the cross of Christ."

--America's Providential History, p. 93.

James Monroe

5th U.S. President

"When we view the blessings with which our country has been favored, those which we now enjoy, and the means which we possess of handing them down unimpaired to our latest posterity, our attention is irresistibly drawn to the source from whence they flow. Let us then, unite in offering our most grateful acknowledgements for these blessings to the Divine Author of All Good."

--Monroe made this statement in his 2nd Annual Message to Congress, November 16, 1818.

Have a wonderful and safe Fourth of July!

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34 comments on this item

I find it curious that some people have to attribute to Thomas Jefferson the spurious quote: "I am a real Christian - that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ." Jefferson was not a Christian. He was a Deist and freethinker. Because you cited Notes on Virginia, so will I.

In Notes On Virginia, (1782: Query XVII) Mr. Jefferson wrote, "Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effects of coercion? To make one half the world fools, and the other half hypocrites." Jefferson further confided to John Adams, "...the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva from the brain of Jupiter. But may we hope that the dawn of reason and freedom of thought in these United States will do away with this artificial scaffolding..." (Thomas Jefferson, Letter to John Adams, April 11, 1823) No Christian wrote those words.

But what the Founders believed personally is quite irrelevant.

They designed the United States Constitution as a plan for government unique in all the world; a government not of gods, but of men. The Constitution is a statement of individual intellectual freedom that deliberately excluded all mention of supernatural beings, or of Christianity, or of a Christ.

Thanks Robert! The 4th of July is one of my favorite Christian holidays too!

Skeptic,

The quote "I am a real Christian - that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus Christ." is from Mr. Jefferson in his *The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, p. 385.* not from me (I didn't say those words), but are his words. I am surprised that you would know more about Mr. Jefferson's beliefs than he knows himself. I would think that would be the height of arrogance.

Sincerely,

Robert Capp

What a slap in the face this post is to anyone who is of a different belief system and is an American. Talk about the height of arrogance, adopting the 4th of July as some type of Christian holiday? Very uncool. Nevertheless, I hope you have a happy and safe 4th of July.

Kitty,

But the 4th of July is a Christian holiday. Bob gave us some great examples of the spirituality of our founding fathers. It is clear they meant this to be a Christian nation, just look at all the references to God in the Constitution! You people need to get your facts straight.

God bless America and nobody else!

Kittyv,

Those are not my words! If it is a slap in the face, then please refute that the words above are not theirs. This is a reprint from about.com. It was John Adams wrote to his wife that Independence Day should be "by solemn acts of devotion to God Almighty", not me. But it was me that posted these quotes directly, without any editing or editorial except "Have a wonderful and safe Fourth of July!"

Sincerely,

Robert Capp

Joszef_Pelikan,

Great humor and a keen eye for history. What I gave you simply were quotes from our founding fathers. Is that a problem? I think you are reading more into this posting than what is there!

Robert Capp

Bob,

Are you telling me that the 4th of July is not a Christian holiday? I thought you were a patriot.

Joszef_Pelikan,

Nope, I actually wasn't suggesting anything, except to have a wonderful Fourth of July/Independence Day! Meant to be a simple post with some quotes of our fore fathers, and sadly some have taken offense. Seriously, why is that?

Robert Capp

Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.

- George Washington

Bob,

Whew, I am glad you still think the 4th of July is still a Christian holiday. You had me worried there for a second. I don't know why they took offense. Your post clearly implies the obvious fact that America is a Christian nation. Your post is a perfect 4th of July post, and not divisive at all. Those who are offended are just unpatriotic atheist commies.

Bob- What's the point of even mentioning the Founders supposed beliefs if not to imply the USA was founded as a Christian kingdom?

But, as I said earlier, the Founders' personal beliefs are irrelevant. What IS important to remember is that they created a secular government in which atheists, agnostics and theists of all delusions enjoyed the same individual rights.

That's an accomplishment to be celebrated.

bcapp -

Martin Luther wrote in "Von Den Juden Und Ihren Lügen" (1543) that Jews are a "base, whoring people..." and that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, their rabbis forbidden to preach, that Jewish homes be razed, and their property and money confiscated. He even advocated that Jews be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time. Luther's writings inspired Hitler's antisemitism.

Does this mean Protestants are compelled to be antisemitic? Of course not. No more than the American Founders beliefs require you to be a Deist.

"Nope, I actually wasn't suggesting anything, except to have a wonderful Fourth of July/Independence Day! Meant to be a simple post with some quotes of our fore fathers, and sadly some have taken offense. Seriously, why is that? "

Well, maybe it's because you've chosen ONLY quotes that shore up the "Christian Nation" position. Why are you playing dumb (which I don't think you are) on this? Or better still, why are you pretending to be dumb?

Bcapp: Thanks for the post, made for interestering reading and gives us all a brief look at how and what our founding farthers were thinking 230 plus years ago. To bad some can not take this post for what it is. Just a sampling of quotes from our founding fathers.

I think that Mr. Capp means well... I don't think he was insinuating anything. He's obviously a Christian and he has his own way of seeing our indepenence... through the eyes of his faith.

There's no need to feel threatened by Robert's post. There are certainly much more dubious characters out there that would seem to have to hope or faith in anything but the distance between their mouth and stomach than the more crucial belief of faith and community. The founding fathers may not have always exemplified the Gospel call, they were men of their time (seemingly pro-slavery and anti-woman at the same time) and apparently were believers in the one God. Perhaps not Christian... but believers nonetheless.

I think that maybe you guys are being too hard on Robert, that's all.

Peace

well, Saladin, you're wrong! ;)

He most definitely meant to insinuate something, which is fine, he is entitled, but why he then chooses to deny his intent afterward, who knows. I wasn't too hard on him, in fact, I showed exemplary restraint! I should be commended! ha ha

I don't think anyone else gave him a very bad time about it either. I like Mr. Capp, though I don't understand why he keeps riding Miuwtant's back and doing the passive aggressive insults thing lately, but perhaps he just needs a little break. Or not, whatever.

I am a bit weary of these characters that keep insisting that GOD is telling us to vote for lobbyists for Exxon Mobil and Blue Cross/Blue Shield. That GOD says dumping massive amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere by the burning of fossil fuels has NO effect on anything. GOD says the artic ice cap disappearing is a myth and a lie. GOD says all the oil in the Mid East is ours. GOD says drill, baby, drill ! GOD says the President is not a citizen but a secret agent godless heathen sent to destroy us. GOD says you shouldn't have to pay any taxes, all the money you earn is yours alone to do with as you see fit. Oh, and GOD says that you don't deserve any benefits of those tax dollars that the government does collect because GOD likes Dept of Defense contractors a whole lot better than you. GOD especially hates darker skinned people and GOD says don't let them legally immigrate into this country. GOD loves slavery. GOD says they can't assimilate culturally. GOD says live in segregated neighborhoods. GOD says the only reason to get married is to breed children, love has nothing to do with it. GOD says everybody is out to prevent you from worshipping HIM.

Oh, and GOD says GOD bless you, and have a nice day !

_____

Avert thine eyes.

A prayer of thanks offered that we haven't all been killed off yet.

Kitty: I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Besides, I get the feeling that the passive-aggressive stuff is going both ways.

you are giving him the benefit of the doubt because you are more willing to believe a person has good intent. I, on the other hand, am feeling rather pessimistic these days. I'll just mosey on over to your morning meditations, maybe that will help... hope you and your loved ones have a nice day, take care.

(CanyonRat, that prayer of thanks might be premature, the day isn't over yet)

I'm just wondering which brand of Christianity Bob's proffering. Catholics, COE (AKA "Catholic Lite" all the damnation with only half of the ceremony).

I don't think that our founding fathers cared much for religion in politics or vise versa.

Kitty: The one today, while relevant, has not been understood very well over the centuries. It's been heard... but rarely tried.

My daughter, Noah, will be here the day after tomorrow. She's 11 and I only see her twice a year (I'm sure I've lamented this before). I'm excited but I require tons of patience due to the fact that it's an overdose of family for three weeks. It used to be I couldn't make it through without drinking, despite my best intentions... now I make it with a bit less than flying colors - but still pretty good (and sober). Cherish your children no matter how crazy they make you. I'd kill to have my little girl drive me up the wall. :)

Wow a very heated debate for sure...let me allow some thoughts....yes this nation was founded under the veil of an actual Christian Nation...period...not because it was actually designed in the constitution as such but because it allowed the government to control the growing population and laws designed for the success of the country much better. A wild bunch of heathens surly would not have worked when developing cities, laws and cultural base requirements...now would it have? People of the faith do more of what is right than what is considered wrong in the eyes of the government imposed laws required for successful civilizations.... as demonstrated by those now sitting in our prisons unable to follow those same government laws. Very simple really they both needed each other to survive in the beginning... and therefore a tax free church is now seen on every corner.....it has been good for the government's business agenda. Now that we all appear to be losing the faith...the real test of the Constitution will be seen in the near future...a document of this importance should not ever be changed....and Skeptic is correct.

Please permit me to quote the quintessential American patriot and the prime mover of both the American and French revolutions, Mr. Thomas Paine:

.

"Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented there is none more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself than this thing called Christianity. Too absurd for belief, too impossible to convince, and too inconsistent for practice, it produces only atheists or fanatics. As an engine of power it serves the purpose of Despotism and as a means of wealth, the avarice of priests. But so far as respects the good of man in general it leads to nothing here, or hereafter. It has been the scheme of the Christian Church, and of all the other invented systems of religion, to hold man in ignorance of the Creator as it is of Government to hold man in ignorance of his Rights."

Thomas Paine, Age of Reason, Part 2 - Section 21. 1815 [ http://www.ushistory.org/paine/reason/reason37.htm ]

I have to say that when learning about our nations history in grade school not once do I recall ever being taught this is a Christian nation. I do recall that the government was built on the principles or separation of church and state. I am pretty sure that means no particular belief set should have anymore influence over our national than any other set of beliefs. To suggest that we are a Christian nation suggests we are a nation based on one religion so then maybe someone can define "Christian"? Does that include Catholics because there are a lot of Catholics in the US. Baptist? Lutheran? Mormons (they believe they are Christian)? Unless I am mistaken the 4th of July celebrates freedom from tyranny (DECLARING our independence from Britain), and I was more than happy to celebrate NOT being a christian or living within a country bound by christian beliefs. Nice job stirring the pot BCAPP

skimammoth,

I don't know what kind of school you attended but I attended eleven years of Catholic school (all except 5th grade) and can add that this idea of a Christian nation never came up once in history, social sciences, government or religion classes.

To me it seems like a reaction to the Supreme Court's decision restricting school prayer and other church-state decisions over the years...people have sort of created something from various founding father quotes, the statement about the Creator in the Declaration and other seemingly unconnected data points and built an entire story around it.

That's OK if the narrative is sound and respects the constitutional rights of other people. But this one isn't sound and isn't respectful of those rights. The very phrase "the U.S. is a Christian nation" seems directly - and I mean categorically - at odds with what the founders intended in the U.S. Constitution.

The original post above is an example. By posting a collection of quotes the author lends this narrative apparent heft...even though none of these quotes taken alone mean anything in terms of our Constitution and our system of law.

The people quoted also agreed that slaves were 3/5ths of a person and women weren't worthy of a vote and were willing to put those notions into writing in the Constitution. We therefore can't take everything they wrote that didn't even make it into the document as the gospel (pun intended).

hmmm....as a Non-Christian nation it appears..the numbers were staggering in 1990..or would you rather kneel and face Mecca...5 times a day?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_in_the_United_States

Keeping people in line is always a good thing....

78% of all statistics are made up... Besides we all know people who say they are christian and have never seen the inside of a church. I used to say I was christian... That was when I didn't know any better.

It is kind of interesting that we've had so many of these "Christian Nation" blogs and letters to the editor lately.

It seems that some christians are starting to feel a little insecure about their religion. Are they starting to question it?

Maybe repeating (chanting) over and over again, "we are a christian nation" helps them stay on the invisible man's good side.

It is very interesting to see that as the declared Christian numbers have gone down recently...the recent incarceration rates seem to be going up....must be a coincidence....I should think.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

Well all,

I sincerely had no idea the reaction that this post would bring. I was referred to the about.com site for these quotes from our founding fathers. While I did not edit the quotes as I stated above, I did edit the article's opening paragraph. It read "These Christian quotes of the founding fathers will give you an overview of their strong moral and spiritual convictions which helped form the foundations of our nation and our government." I purposely left out the word "Christian" to not offend those that are sensitive about the term. That was a mistake. Anyway, these are the words of the author and the rest are actual quotes from our founding fathers that were listed by the author. There are eight more founding fathers that I didn't include. They included notables: John Quincy Adams, William Penn, Roger Sherman, Benjamin Rush, John Witherspoon, Alexander Hamiliton, Patrick Henry and John Jay. All of these quotes give a possible insight to the motivations and influences that were important to the lives of our founding fathers. In no way did I say that ours is a Christian nation-that would be folly. I wasn't playing or pretending to be dumb - I'm truly amazed at the reaction of those that wrote here. If I offended anyone by wishing all a wonderful and safe fourth of July, since those were my only original words of the post, then I am amazed. The rest of the post was a re-print from about.com (a part of The New York Times Company.)

Sincerely,

Robert Cap

Bob - The important issue isn't what the Founders believed. What's important is that they created a uniquely secular government devoted to ensuring that the people and not some unitary ruler inherited political power. Never before was such a nation created.

BTW, be careful of About.com. It tends to run dubious "facts" to make a point. Many of the "Founded A Christian Nation" quotes were fabricated and disseminated just like other stories on alligators in the sewers, the McDonald's hot coffee lawsuit, or the Walt Disney is cryogenically frozen myth. You may want to double check your quotations.

David Barton is a Christian fundamentalist motivational speaker who wrote a book full of quotes from the Founding Fathers that "proved" our nation was founded by believers on Judeo-Christian principals. Even authors devoted to the Founding Fathers were convinced. Barton was finally cornered and admitted to fabricating the quotes (he called them "spurious," but we all know that means he made them up).

For an even-handed evaluation, check here: http://www.religioustolerance.org/badquotes.htm.

Thank you for a spirited and civil debate.

Yours truly,

Skeptic

Bcapp1 - I checked on Mary Fairchild, the author of "Christian Quotes of the Founding Fathers..." (About.com).

"Mary Fairchild has worked full time in Christian ministry since 1988 serving in several capacities, including Missionary, Assistant to the Pastoral Staff, Administrative Assistant and Office Manager for a large church. Mary made a decision at 17 to accept Jesus Christ as her personal Lord and Savior. While in Bible School, she worked for a major city church as the Assistant to the Dean of Education. Once graduated, Mary felt called as a single Christian to pursue a 4-year term of service on the mission field in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. After returning to the States and getting married, Mary and her husband continued to lead short-term mission teams to Brazil. More recently, she served on the staff of a large Calvary Chapel as the Office Manager and Assistant to the Pastoral Staff. In addition to managing this site, Mary currently works on special projects including writing and editing for her senior pastor. In May of 1991, Mary received a General Biblical Studies degree from an Interdenominational Christian Training Center in Florida. She also holds a Missions Degree from Youth With A Mission Discipleship Training School, where she graduated in August, 1991."

This doesn't necessarily mean her article is based on deceptions, but as the Muslims say, "trust in Allah but tie your camel."

Bob, you could have just wished everyone a fine, festive and safe 4th. I don't know why you chose this article or quotes. I think you did wish to interject some beliefs/opinions you have, which is fine but don't play it off as if it wasn't your intent. Be true to yourself.

My Godmother was a fine woman and turned all her energy into helping the sick, injured and needy. She also went to church every Sunday because that what she wanted to do and firmly believed it was what she was supposed to do. So every week she's sitting in this church around the corner from her house. She never gave a thought as to what was the denomination the church. She didn't care. In her euology the priest threw in, "this is a Christian nation". Turns out she had offended the pastor by telling some new Americans at the church that if they wanted to practice their religion here they could because "that's what this nation is founded on".

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