If Abramoff had been a big money mover for the Democrats, the second he was indicted the Democrats would never have heard the end of it. By the time he was jailed, it would have been the Democrats getting investigated and charged and going to trial, or plea bargaining also... instead.... with all this supposed ammo at their disposal....

....

... ....

.... crickets.

George W. Bush. As if anyone could take him seriously.

Furthermore, What's got them worried now is that ex City of Lincoln, CA lobbyist and former Greenberg Traurig lobbyist, former Barnes& Thornburg lobbyist, former Doolittle staffer, and Abramoff co worker Kevin Ring is currently on trial for corruption, and he has not taken a plea bargain but has opted for a jury trial.

Ring resigned from his last lobbying job the day former CA 04 Rep. John Doolittle's house in Virginia was raided by the FBI. Doolittle, that 13th of April 2007 day, was on his way to give a speech at an Oroville Chamber of Commerce meeting at the local .... Indian Casino.

A year and a half later, Sept 2008, Ring was indicted.

Sen. John McCain has been sitting on a huge pile of legal documents on permanent Senate hold since Ring pleaded the 5th amendment against self incrimination in 2005 during a Senate Indian Affairs committee hearing. Ring was working for the Choctaw Indian tribe as a lobbyist at that time.

Doolittle wrote letters to the Sec of the Interior for tribe projects.

Julie Doolittle, the former Rep. John Doolittle's wife, ended up working at a non profit designed by Abramoff's "friends" as a way to funnel cash to her and to Christine Delay, the wife of the ex Texas Rep. and former House Republican Leader Tom "shake your bum- bum on Dancing with the Stars" Delay's wife.

Julie Doolittle, while not charged with anything, yet, is named as as co conspirator in the government's evidence list.

CR...and we should care...turn over a rock any rock.... and you will find corruption purely based on the way the system is set up now and how this current system currently generates money for the political process. Jack is and was a small fry...there are much much bigger fish to fry....and unless "we the people" change the entire political system via specific changes to our current laws...that change the way we do things now...it will always be corrupt. If our society lasts the next 200 years as a country and we do not change these laws...the headlines will all just be the same.. over and over... again.... year after year. The names in the headlines will be the only change our children will ever see...

So, are you saying you are interested in seeing corrupt politicians brought down?

If so, you are missing the target. Abramoff is old news. Focus on the Obama bundler who brought millions into the Democrat coffers and was just indicted. Google "Hassan Nemazee" but you have to look hard. The story will not be covered by the state-run media.

Did you know that Harry Reid took money from Abramoff and subsequently assisted his clients???

What is the deal? Are you so blatantly partisan that you only attack Republicans even when both parties are dirty?

You are a professional at your partisan attacks General Sam, Both parties are dirty, but the Republicans take the lead in being the most corrupt. And that's a fact. Obama's only been in office 8 months and you wont get much on him, but the last 8 years of Bush and Cheney, that's a whole big story that we could talk about for years.

I am glad to see CanyonRat did not forget Kevin Ring, former Doolittle aide and lobbyist for the City of Lincoln, Ca, as one of the most corrupt influence peddlers. Did John Doolittle make a deal not to seek reelection in turn for not being prosecuted ... so far that looks to be the case ... unlike, of course, he is indicted ... but not yet. Doolittle in his wife Julie must have some sleepless nights ... still.

CanyonRat

Today's update on the Ring trial

National Journal: Jury Watches DoJ Official Using Ring's Tickets

http://undertheinfluence.nationaljournal.com/2009/09/jury-watches.php

glennmeadowvista

You may want to check those facts. Corruption isn't specific to party its specific to opportunity. Dems looked clean while the Reps were in power for a very long time but they are in power now and just crossed over the half way mark on Crew's most corrupt list.

CREW: CREW RELEASES FIFTH ANNUAL MOST CORRUPT MEMBERS OF CONGRESS REPORT

http://www.citizensforethics.org/node/42385

It would be nice if the voters would own up to their responsibility and toss the lists old timers like Murtha and Lewis but it doesn't look promising.

Ca-voter, the facts are the facts the republicans are still #1 crooks.

Is glennmeadowvista saying in effect that President Cheney lied to the American people? I'm shocked!

I'd like to refer family values voters to this report: http://open.salon.com/blog/gordon_wagner/2009/05/22/gop_gang_of_pedophiles

CA-04: This blog was strictly intended to push my blog post about the $290 MILLION Democrat Bundler off the page. Its too obvious.

Its a pathetic situation when one sees that their messiah is corrupt, and simply starts pushing people down the sidewalk shouting "Nothing here to see folks...nothing to see... lets move on...

So, when will Doolittle be indicted? Are we going to continue hurling insults and accusations for the rest of his life?

I don't like the guy but come on people, you're beating the same old dead horse over and over again.

GlennMeadowvista,

Please explain "the facts are the facts the republicans are still #1 crooks." That is a pretty huge statement to throw out there - do you have data to back that up? I have many friends that are "Republicans" that are certainly not crooks. Please verify your assertion with some data comparing Republicans and Democrats that are crooks and give hard numbers to support your assertion - otherwise you have maligned a very large segment of our population.

Thank you,

Robert Capp

This seems to be what I’m running into here more and more from the left. You provide facts and they refute them with their unsubstantiated opinion. You really can’t have an honest debate with someone like that. Jack gave to both parties. As YS has pointed out, Obama and the left now have another Jack on their hands. Putting your hands over your eyes and saying it doesn’t exist doesn’t make it go away. Great work Ca04voter. You have the facts.

Here are a few recent cases of corruption:

Gov. Matt Blunt (MO)

As Secretary of State in 2004, spent $48,000 in federal money on statewide advertising - featuring his name and picture - encouraging people to vote in the upcoming elections, in which he ran for governor. Received thousands from out-of-state donors trying to appease his father, Rep. Roy Blunt (see below). Awarded $3.6 million in state no-bid contracts to the wife and brother-in-law of the US Attorney investigating him for corruption.

Rep. Roy Blunt (MO), House Republican Whip

Inserted provision benefiting Philip Morris into the bill creating the Homeland Security Department just hours after becoming Whip without telling anyone. Turns out his son was a Philip Morris lobbyist, as was his girlfriend (and future wife), and the company gave his PAC $32,400 days later. He also introduced a bill unfairly benefiting UPS, who the same son then worked as a lobbyist for, and who also gave his campaign tens of thousands of dollars. Participated in money-laundering scheme with Tom Delay in 2000 to divert thousands for his son, Matt Blunt's (see above), campaign for Secretary of State. Received contributions from Jack Abramoff and his clients, who he often supported in Congress.

(contd.)

Gov. Ernie Fletcher (KY)

Exercised blatant favoritism in state employment hiring based on partisan loyalties. Many top Republican officials were indicted in the scandal, including the Transportation Secretary and Deputy Secretary, State GOP Chairman, and Fletcher's Personnel Advisor, Deputy Personnel Secretary, and Deputy Chief of Staff. Fletcher was issued 29 indictments, including for conspiracy, official misconduct and political discrimination. He issued a blanket pardon to everyone involved in the case so that they would not testify against him, which may have led to the deal he got last week dropping the charges.

Gov. Bob Taft (OH)

Promised wealthy donors giving $25,000-50,000 to the Ohio GOP that they would get "access to key GOP officeholders," seats in his private box for football games, and full anonymity. He called this club of participants "Team Ohio." Taft was convicted for failing to disclose $5,800 in gifts from lobbyists, and his approval rating dropped as low as 6.5%.

(contd.)

Secretary of State Ken Blackwell (OH)

During 2004 presidential election, was co-chair of Committee to Re-elect Bush in Ohio despite being Ohio's Chief Elections Officer (think Katherine Harris, but better looking in a dress). Responsible for massive vote suppression through uneven machine allocation and exclusion of provisional ballots, as well as his refusal to accept voter registration forms printed on anything lighter than 80-lb paper (such as normal typing or copier paper).

Ralph Regula (OH)

Earmarked more than $2 million as senior member of Appropriations Committee to create the First Ladies National Historic Site in his district, to be headed by his own wife. He also accepted thousands of dollars from Abramoff and Rep. Ney.

Thomas Noe (OH) GOP official and fundraiser

Funneled $45,400 to Bush's 2004 campaign using two dozen people as conduits, for which he later pled guilty to several counts for illegal campaign contributions. Central figure of "Coingate," where he was given $50 million to invest for the Ohio Bureau of Workers' Compensation through rare coin funds, of which he lost $13 million.

(contd.)

and the local boys:

Rep. Ken Calvert (R-CA) ; Rep. Randall "Duke" Cunningham (R-CA); Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-CA); Rep. John Doolittle (R-CA); and Rep. Richard Pombo (R-CA).

The GOP has become the party of pedophiles, of diaper-wearing Christian family values Senators, closeted self-loathing gays, liars, thieves, traitors, spies and mass murderers. The party of dirty money and political bribes and nasty little secrets. The anti-Constitution party. The party of torture, secret prisons and indefinite detention. Rev. Ted Haggard exposed as a dope fiend by his male "escort." Foley resigned in disgrace. Internet male prostitute Jeff Gannon with full White House access.

You should have known your party was in trouble when it surrendered the moral high ground to a drug-dealing gay prostitute and an alcoholic child stalker. Now it's become the party of sanctimonious hypocrites, coverups and corporate manipulated teabaggers.

The. Worst. Party. Ever.

General Sam, It appears that Hassan Nemazee is a loser and possibly a crook, BUT he has only been charged with fraud, he has not been convicted of any crime and has not been found guilty of any crime ( as of this time ) There for you really cant complain about much of anything. When and if he is found guilty go for it. The Republicans receive lots of donations from big time losers every day as well.

Bob

Based on the topic being Abramoff my assumption was that Glen refers to members of Congress. In that context his assertion has some validity but only if you slice time specifically to support the assertion. However if we look back long enough to see both parties while they were in power for an extended period of time The Republican assent to power was largely due to corruption in the Democratic party so if you look back far enough to see both during long times of control its obvious that the similarities far out weigh the differences.

Skeptic/Glennmeadowvista,

You list about a dozen corrupt and contemptable people of very low regard - but there are millions of republicans - where is the data that they are "crooks" as glennmeadowvista claims - that is a mighty big brush for him to paint about republicans. I'm guessing that any person here could match your list skeptic with democrat counterparts - but why? What does it prove? How does this change a person's views? It just seems tit-for-tat and a knee-jerk response top another useless posting about bundlers.

Someone's hate is showing when he lashes out at a group so large with such accusations.

glennmeadowvista/skeptic - The.Worst.Posting.Ever.

Robert Capp

Thank You Skeptic, You bet me to the big and very long list of the fine Republicans, you saved me lots of typing.

Patrick

Ignoring facts because of an established belief system doesn't have a party bias any more than corruption does. Who someone gives money to is irrelevant and when you look at the ratio of questionable transactions Abramoff's bias was overwhelmingly to Republican. His work with Democrats is almost insignificant by comparison. I didn't read the Y_S post past the first paragraph which was so inaccurate that there was no reason to continue. There is a difference between a fund raiser and a lobbyist and the reason that you get so many hits for Abramoff is because the story had a news cycle that goes way back to the 90'sand hasn't ended yet. No one left office just for taking money from Abramoff they left office in disgrace for what they did to get that money We have had members and aides to prison time on the topic of Abramoff none for Hassan Nemazee. It was a classic apples to oranges post where you get people draw conclusions by adding 1+1 to equal 3. This Hassan Nemazee sounds like someone worthy of looking into but so far he would have to work a bit harder to catch up with Jack. In fairness the Republicans didn't do much that was new it was all things that the Democrats had done before them they just took it to the next level.

Robert Capp, Sorry I was not referring the general public as crooks, but referring to republican politicians and big time people. I have many republican friends as well ( not the hard core extremist as you will find around here.) and they are all wonderful people. Robert this is where you will find all the facts you need. Please google, republican crooks, republican liars, republican perverts, corrupt republicans, you will find millions of hits to read, enjoy.

I get it..so all politicians just jockey for the best position via bribery and or political contribution which are actually the same.. to benefit themselves or family or donor in some way or fashion. While during this whole time period... they are trying to convince the tax payers that they are suppose to represent... that they are working hard for them and the tax payer's best interests?

Is this why we are now 13 trillion in debt? Really... there is nobody working for any of us...they appear to be all working... only for themselves.

That would explain the huge salaries and benefit packages coming out of all government coffers.

glennmeadowvista,

Thank you for clarifying your assertion. I did google the republican liars, crooks etc. 8-10 million hits each. Then I did the same searches for democrat liars, crooks, etc. the same type of results. I believe that you have partisan blinders on if you truly believe that republicans own the crook title - it is truly an epidemic from both sides of the aisle. No one party has a lock on corruption/lying and each has similar stories of ethical lapses in behavior/judgement. Enjoy!

Good luck,

Robert Capp

Obewan

I doubt that they are all that way but most are guilty of at least turning a blind eye or putting party before country. In the congress the first priority is to get reelected and the second priority is to help ones party maintain or ascend to power. If they have any time left that start about the peoples business. We are on their dance card just not high on the list. What I find difficult to understand is how the candidate that we vote for or even volunteer for makes the transition from idealist to the politicians that we are so fed up with.

As I recall the old saying is that they come to Washington to do good they stay to do well.

It gets back to whether or not ex President GW Bush was lying when he claimed Abramoff gave as much to the D's as the R's. Ridiculous. Check his donations.

Bush is so brain damaged he thinks this stuff isn't kept track of ?

This has already been proven that Rove was running a big ring of Republican lobbyists to keep the Republican politicians in line with the President and VP's foreign policy. It's a no brainer. The indictments and convictions show it.

Bush was lying.

Bush was just trying to cover his butt as yet another Abramoff scandal trial gets underway, because the witnesses in THIS trial worked for John Ashcroft and don't want to testify and incriminate themselves, because this corruption was going all the way from Cheney's office via Rove right to the Dept. of Justice. The Gonzogate scandal, when Doolittle helped get the local CA Atty General prosecutor fired who was going to indict Brent Wilkes, the defense contractor Doolittle earmarked for.

I don't know WHY anybody on the Republican side would defend this sort of garbage. Doolittle, John, and Julie as a single unit, was this huge, huge tax cheat, and got caught on it by the FBI and IRS. You'd think they would WANT the wealthy to pay their taxes like the rest of us mortals, instead, all this blowing about how the other side is doing it more.

This subject nearly got sidetracked. Typical.

Who frick"n cares. They're all corrupt. Stop fighting with each other and throw the bums out. Vote little 'guy' in favor of the original constitution, minimual government, and term limits. People waste so much time arguing about the obvious. It's not us or them, it's we the people. If things stay in the toilet, as they they have been for sometime, we have no one to blame but ourselves.....!

bcapp, just checking your figures I googled republican liars and crooks. the actual score is 15,500,000 and 18,000,000

for the democrats it came out 8,000,000 and 13,000,000. The numbers don't mean much to me but I thought I should keep this honest.

the main difference between the two, that makes a difference, is that democrats care more social welfare programs and republicans care for corporate welfare programs at the expense of the people.

ChuxxR

Their similarities far out weigh their differences. Both parties had been waging war the middle class in this country. Both are corrupt and both only care about reelection

CA04, while what you say may be true, show me where a republican ever backed a social program. Worker protections exist only because the dems made the effort. Our 8 hour day and 40 hour work week, the minimum wage, work place conditions and safety, unenployment compensation are just some of the things dems have done for the workers.

the warfare state is the single biggest 'social program' any government has ever propagated, and the Rethugs seem to fall in line behind it like flies to poopoo. same with the war on drugs -- plenty of misguided folks who think they're saving the public from itself, both on the left and the right.

ChuxxR

If you want to compare things that were done 40 or 50 years ago you may have a point. If I made historical comparisons I could go back to Lincoln for civil rights or Roosevelt for the environment. It isn't the same party anymore neither of them are.