Do you have any pictures of the dead Israelis after rockets came into their apartments and homes?

Yosemite_Sam- Amen!

No, I don't have anyone on that side if the apartheid wall to take pictures.

I've used white phosphorus in combat (or as we Marines called it, "Willie Peter") and I've seen closeup and firsthand what it can do to human beings. It is truly hideous.

When exposed to air, WP spontaneously ignites and burns at 5000 degrees F. until it consumes itself or deprived of air. Upon reintroduction to air, WP reignites itself.

If burning particles of WP hit your clothing, they will stick like napalm. You must immediately take off the clothing before the WP burns through to the skin. Should WP get on on your skin, it will burn deeper until it is (1) removed, (2) burns completely through to the bone - where it will continue to burn - or (3) consumes itself.

Removal from skin is tricky because WP embeds itself. Removal involves submersing the effected area under water and digging each WP particle out with a knife. Should you miss a particle, or reintroduce the wound to the air, remaining WP will reignite itself. Deep absorption can result in heart, liver, and kidney damage and necrosis or cancer of the bones.

The toxicity to humans led to the banning of WP in kitchen matches. Which brings up another point. The fumes and smoke of burning WP are highly poisonous. Breathing WP smoke or fumes destroys the nose, mouth and lungs.

Anyone who condones the use of WP on or near human beings should always try it on themselves first.

Spoken from a man who knows... well said, Skeptic.

Hey Birch, after I posted that comment I was thinking that my comment might be read much like those who defend Obama by attacking Bush.

There is no defense for what happened there. I hope that someone is held responsible.

I'm glad you came back with that, Yosemite. Personal politics aside... it's not ok to do what's being done in the photos.

You're a bigger man for admitting it.

Just assuming this is retalitory....if random, then the school was not the target, anything was, and that has it's own message.

If it wasn't random, then I see three possibilities:

Real target was missed and the this building was hit.

This building was being used by militants.

Or Israel was try to take out this school building because it was a school building.

I'll assume since you have called the strike "shameless" you know more details about why this was done.

Do you know why this strike occured?

I'm not trying to be a jerk here, I'm just looking at a picture and thinking about the decision that was made for the strike.

If in the event the school was being used to initiate a military action to make Israel think twice about a counter strike then I'd have to say

shame on the idiots for using the school.

Why did you switch from WP to "Napalm"? Or was Napalm involved as well?

I guess this is why they say War is hell.....

Mike: 1. School was in session. It's an old tactic to say there are "militants" hiding in a school, hospital, etc. in order to terrorize the population. Psychological warfare, if you will. I have photos of the dead and maimed children that were there. The picts are too gory for the Journal.

2. There was no reason to strike here. Hamas was not in the area. Hamas targets are obvious targets. The strike was designed, as I said, to strike fear into the population and to send a message... "we're crazy, resistance is futile."

3. I switched to the word "napalm" for convenience. White Phosphorus is basically napalm.

4. You're right... war is hell. Especially for the bystanders.

5. This is one of the reasons that Israel is being brought up on charges of "Crimes against humanity" by the UN. (as per Goldstone's report.)

Israel should be held accountable for warcrimes. It would send a message to others and to the US as well. We have some of that blood on our hands but we don't like admitting it. The people of Gaza deserve retribution, just as much as any other people who have ever suffered such severe injustice.We should be spending our time trying to eradicate it, immediately, now, yeserday would be better. Phospherous has no excuses...

Yosemite - Thanks for your humility. You are a bigger man than many

The year is 2009 and this is the best mankind can do......will prayers stop this blood shed and death.....we have had and allowed 4000 years for both sides to pray on these matters at hand. Clearly we have been doomed by mankind's own ignorance...

Skeptic- Ouch

Auburnative - Your open hatred for people of another race and culture is shocking, if not criminal. This post is about war crimes, not the exchange of equally armed combantants and certainly, not racism. It is sad that while so many people would never comment like you did, that out of their ignorance, they also share your feelings...

It is only to my honor that you personally attack me for defending those who are defended by so few...As a matter of fact, I am marrying into a family of dark-skin Middle Eastern people in one more week and I couldn't be more honored to do so. I am glad they do not live here and have to endure people like you. May God have Mercy on you...

auburnative - Thank God the AJ pulled your last comment

Observer, I saw what that fool auburnative wrote. Moonshine sure gives an inbred hillbilly courage don't it auburnative. Oh wait you're gone, forever I hope.

Does anyone know auburnative? He is in crises and needs help. I think there's a clinic in Compton, CA that can provide everything he needs.

Killing of Any human is Shameless..............

The United Nations moves to set up a commission to look into Israeli war crimes and respond to its human rights violations in Gaza.

After the United Nations Works and Relief Agency (UNRWA) compound became the target of GPS-guided Israeli mortars on January 15, the UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon condemned "in the strongest terms this outrageous attack" and called for an inquiry into suspected Israeli war crimes.

"I strongly demand a thorough investigation and punishment for those responsible," he told reporters in Beirut after the attack.

Japanese Ambassador Yukio Takasu, who currently holds the presidency of the Security Council, said late on Monday that Ban had told a closed-door briefing in the council that the UN had set up a commission as a preliminary step to look into Israeli damage to UN premises.

Several diplomats have reported that the commission would be led by the former British secretary-general of human rights group Amnesty International, Ian Martin.

Takasu said the commission would later report back to the Security Council, which would then decide how to respond.

Diplomats have expressed skepticism as to whether a Security Council inquiry would take place, saying they thought it unlikely that Israel's ally the United States, which has a veto in the council, would allow the 15-nation body to adopt the report as its own.

The January 15 incident, which has prompted the UN inquiry, was the third …

B. Bricher

I've read up on the 2008-2009 Gaza Conflict timeline, Hamas, and Israel.

It is a mess.

Schools being bombed is a bad thing everytime it happens. (Three Israeli schools were hit during this conflict.)

My conclusion after awhile was that is was Hamas that was waging a "psychological" offensive on Israel with hundreds of rockets and mortars being fired and random into Israel with no objective target involved but civilians and civilian structures. I found a large amount of documentation about the Iraeli efforts to actually clear areas of civilians prior to a scheduled attack. The munitions used for certain targets were calculated for that target and there accuracy was also well documented. The use of WP is used in warfare today and the Israel claims to have used it within those guide lines....blah, blah, blah....

The tactic of saying there are militants hiding in a school is as old as, well, militants hiding in a school. It happens to be a fact that Hamas used residential areas, religious buildings, and schools to stock pile weapons. I'm not saying that is why this building was targeted in this particular situation but I find your claim that the strike was designed to strike fear into the population and send a message is a bit odd. As densely populated as Gaza is there was no way to not suffer civilian casualties in an offensive against an enemy that is launching their attacks well dispersed throughout that landscape. (cont)

(cont)

I just think your claim to know the design of this one strike is unfounded.

I think we should save the "Crimes against humanity" charges for a better fit.

Hamas is a terrorist organization that has no regard for endangering the civiling population it uses as camo.

To lob rockets and mortars over the border and into the civilian population of a country that can easily destroy you is suicide.

I would find it hard believe Hamas knew the public outcry that would take place because of the civilian deaths that were bound to occure during any Israeli counter-attack.

At least we agree war is hell.

Thanks for the info, bigboy.

Mike: As we agreed upon earlier... war is hell. I've never said that Hamas didn't launch missiles... they certainly did. While I find both sides to be more or less at fault on that I have to admit that I can't help but think that Gaza was out gunned and that Israel went way overboard. It's a terrible situation, I think most would agree with that.

I didn't really post these pictures with the intent of debating Israel vs. Palestine... I just thought that since these are photos from the ground and most people haven't seen them... folks might want to. Naturally I posted my opinion with the photos... maybe I should have let that go. Of course, as we all know, I am sympathetic towards the plight of the Palestinians. I would like to see peace in the region so that Jews, Christians, and Muslims can try to resume back to their normal lives. God knows it hasn't been normal ever since the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and certainly since 1948.

The Ten Commandments, in the Old Testament, and summarized in the New Testament as two commandments, start with (the most important) our faithfulness, obedience and love towards this one God. They end with the command not just to treat our fellow human beings as we want them to treat us, but as in the OT, we are not even to desire those things that belong to them. Coveting is the start of what will eventually, left to it's own, result to murder. Without Faith in this one God and without the moral conscience that requires sacrifice on our part, we will listen to our own desires and ultimately, in the end, take the life of the innocent. We might as well stand at the foot of the Cross and put the nails in His feet.

Had the parties involved in the 1917 Balfour Delaration, not coveted land, homes, ??, belonging to others, the mess we have with Israel/Gaza would not be here today. It is the guaranteed result of people's violations of God's Commandments. Only those who see God as Merciful, Loving, Healing, Providing, worthy of our love and appreciation for Himself, and Himself alone, who can possibly grasp this. Unless we are willing to see what separates us from Him, we will continue to desire and ultimately do the works that are not of Him...

BirchBricker -

We seem to be missing the point; basic human morality demands that white phosphorus not be used against a human being, irrespective of any provocation.

A far as I can tell, the only nations to use WP incendiaries against civilians are Russia (in Chechnya), the USA (in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq), Israel (in Lebanon and Gaza with US-supplied WP munitions) and by Saddam Hussein (with US-supplied WP munitions) against the Kurds.

Mike, please list your source for this: "Three Israeli schools were hit during this conflict."

Here's a day by day account of rockets fired from Gaza. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_rocket_attacks_on_Israel,_2009

"About 10 rockets are launched from Gaza into southern Israel, but cause no injuries, the Israeli army says. Israeli officials say the security cabinet could vote on Saturday on a proposal for a unilateral ceasefire in Gaza." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/7812290.stm

"The rockets hit western Galilee, in northern Israel, close to the border with Lebanon, slightly injuring two people and leaving several others needing treatment for shock, police said." http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a0t.VKAhZJTo&refer=home

Most of the rockets fired hit in the Western Negev Desert area where no Israelis should be.

Birch, There were no missiles fired from Gaza only rockets and they do little damage. One hit a natural gas tank which didn't even explode but I heard a chicken was scared.

Skeptic - When you put it into this simple lists, it doesn't look like we're doing too good. I guess like minds...think alike. Excuse me, I think am getting nauseated...

ChuuxR,

If your post above is an example of supporting an argument then there is no reason to discuss this with you ChuxxR.

I try very hard to avoid a cut and paste exchange.....folks think that just because something is in print on the internet it has gone through so authenticity filtration process. Besides, once shown damaged Israeli schools I'm sure you would be quick to point out some other detail therein which makes it count "less" that the other.

I'm stating merely that the Israeli's claim school hits as well (I found 3).....if you can't find them ChuxxR, you don't want to find them.

You want to think only a handfull of projectiles were sent into Israel from Gaza, most landing in the desert, and only managed to scare one chicken....then you are playing games and it's clear will follow Birch Bricker over a cliff on this topic.

Birch has admitted his bias and you seem to want to save him from it.

Why he bothered adressing me as "bigboy" is a small mystery to me.....Perhaps I am being punished for not falling in line with these snap-shots of a moment of War and venturing beyond the given explaination of them.

Birch, do you recognize Israel, at all? Seriously.

Birch--

I just backed up and saw that you ment "bigboy" for another post......

No wonder I was confused with the sudden title I thought you were trying to give me....

(small mystery solved.)

".....basic human morality demands...." -- Skeptic

What's your take on sending a piece of steel traveling at 2200 fps through the body of a human?

Mike: No problem. Sorry for the confusion. :)

I recognize the rights of native Jews and Muslims (both are Semites) to live at ease on their own land, without interference from other countries. If ever that place comes into existence... that would be a recognizable state. I didn't support South Africa until they ended Apartheid.

Zionism = Apartheid. I can not, with a clean conscience, support or recognize that sort of brutality.

I understand your position.

Right on, Mike. Even if we don't see eye to eye, I appreciate your ability to at least grasp what I'm saying.

I said it the other day and I'll say it again... "Civility is often in high demand and short supply around here."

Thanks for the civility.