Hmmm the Republican candidate is a RINO but the Conservative Party Candidate is a Republican? Really Y_S you really should just go back to the Republicans and see what you can do from the inside. Your are far too- concerned over what happens inside the party to be an outsider. Admittedly I should probably wave to you as we pass on the same road going the other direction because I care too little for someone on the inside.

Much as they would like to Conservatives do not own the Republican Party and demographically they can't hold a majority in congress without the help and support of moderate Republican and Independent voters. I would think that they will always have a shot at the executive . What conservatives really want is to steer the boat with everyone else happily rowing away but asking nothing in return. They want to keep the moderate and independent voters without providing any candidates with moderate values. What never ceases to amaze me is that they get so upset because anyone else would dare to have a differing opinion. In truth its really past time for a moderate third party.

Perhaps the message is clear and you don't see it. The Republican party is not a conservative party. Perhaps the message is, Conservatives need a party of their own, away from the Republicans. Perhaps those that have been snake bitten are the ones that left the Republican party and became independent enough to realize the direction it was heading. Maybe your brand of conservative is not what many others believe is conservative. Keeping Government out of our lives and small includes moral beliefs too...that is a difference between your conservative approach and mine for example.

Yosemite: Why don't you work with the Liberatrians instead of trying to reinvent the wheel?

Birch, the Libertarians don't want all the religion in their party...

That's true...

One other thing on this particular district is that though it has been staunchly Republican for sometime its still in the northeast. Not really strong territory for social conservatives. Add to that the fact that Scozzafava backed out so late that there was still a candidate with an "R" next to the name on the ballot and Hoffman didn't really have strong name recognition as a candidate.The endorsement was a factor but I doubt that it was a major factor. Its more likely that there were multiple factors:

Republicans checking the box with and "R" in it no matter what (we tend to do that, I would imagine some Dems do as well).

People didn't know Hoffman all that well and he entered late.

Hoffman had so little knowledge of the local political scene that he had to admit it in a couple of TV interviews.

People in that district are more moderate than Hoffman or the local party wouldn't have pushed Scozzafava in the first place.

Some Republicans rebelled against a conservative invasion from the outside against a well known local.

Scozzafava endorsed the Dem.

The local party could have run someone more to the right of Scozzafava from the beginning and probably would have held the seat.

If you look at the Republican Party principles/platform, I would be a solid Republican because I believe in a strong national defense, less federal government on social issues, local control over education, lower taxes, and the importance of family and a right to life.

If you look at the actions of the Republican Party leadership, you have to wonder if they have ever actually read their party platform.

I tried working within the party and it was endless disappointment. Both parties are owned by international corporations, unions and special interest groups.

The Democrats are led by their left wing and pretend to be progressive, but their actions are fascist.

The Republicans are led by their left wing and pretend to be conservative, but their actions are statist.

At this point, I just plan to continue demonstrating the hypocrisy of both parties. Maybe some time people will wake up and regain control of their political system. I do not think 3rd parties are the way to go, but rather cleaning up both of the major parties.

The first/best way to fix the problem is to eliminate all corporate, union and special interest funding of elections. Some say its a regulation of free speech, or restraint of the right to assemble but its not. You can speak, corporations can speak. You can vote, but corporations cannot vote. Thus, restricting their campaign funding would be no different than restricting them from placing votes.

CA_04: I belong in the Republican Party but until they purge the party of the liberals..not moderates...just liberals..it makes no sense.

I believe in big-tents and coalitions, but the liberals in the party are actually agents of destruction and disruption. People like Scozzafava (and we have our own here in Placer County) enter the Republican party to undermine it from within. She could have run as a Democrat and been surrounded by people she agrees with, but rather, she went into the Republican party and would have been voting against her own people most of the time on key issues.

Its better to lose a race and retain your principles, than to win a race and lose your principles. (See Arnold Schwarzenegger)

Y_S

I certainly agree with you view about limiting contributions. I would limit them to registered voters only. One person one vote, one person one contribution. I have always felt that the limiting contributions is the same as limiting free speech argument is absurd. No one is limiting the speech they are limiting the volume to an acceptable level just as they would if you wanted to exercise free speech in a residential neighborhood at 03:00 in the morning. We can and should also limit the use of the political process to those that can legally vote in it.

Personally I am not such a fan of big tents I would rather have more choices and smaller parties. I would like to see more competition in the process. Democracy is strengthened by struggle and weakened by establishment.

As far as that last line goes. Good point, better example. I never even considered a vote in that direction.

Yosemite: I am in full support of limiting contributions from any entity except the actual voter with dollar amount limits too. I think this is the root of all evil in our political system.

Unfortunately, you go about shouting and screaming about other meaningless stuff that makes you sound like the crazy guy on the street corner. And this very important point of yours gets lost in there somewhere.

So YS would Barry Goldwater be a Republican or liberal based on his views of being pro women's and gay rights as well as for small government (which means stay our of my personal life) and small taxes? I consider myself a Barry Goldwater Republican not a Glen Beck fascist who wants large government when it suits him.

Dr Bill Kirby

BK: I would put you as a libertarian based on your description, and your enmity towards conservatives is duly noted.

When you say women's rights, you are speaking of their right to kill their unborn children right? And you support a federal mandate that all states must allow it, right? Do you support a human being's (a living being with unique DNA) right to life?

When you say gay rights, you are speaking of their right to redefine marriage to include them right? And you support a federal mandate that all states much allow it and recognize it, right?

It is conservative to protect life and it is conservative to support constitutional legislation rather than legislation from the bench.

FYI, I am not a Glenn Beck fan, do not listen to Rush. I do listen to Hannity on occasion and often listen and agree with Hugh Hewitt.

YS

I believe in the first trimester it is betwen a woman her God and her Doctor. I do not believe life begins at conception. If it did all birth control pills and IUD's which so not prevent conception but prevent implantation would be outlawed. The definitation used to be 'when the fetus was viable outside the womb' and that worked but has been changed to 'moment of conception' which I and a majority of people do not agree with.

I reject your use of 'Conservative' to describe the people on the far right of the party. They want big brother government when it suits their purposes. As to gay rights, civil unions work for me but I clearly believe it is a State not Federal issue.

You never answered my question about where you would place Barry Goldwater who I believe had true 'Conservative' values.

Bill Kirby

YS is not a Republican. Thank God!

LOL there is no left right anymore..............

you people need to wake up and stop fighting each other and fight the world government coming to our country.

Doc, "I do not believe life begins at conception", then in your analysis it is at "implantation". Do I read you correctly? Politics should not be in the business of indulging either side of the abortion issue.