Obama should drop the "Socialized Health Care" boondoggle and start working on creating jobs, real jobs, by cutting taxes on small business.

The USA survived 1983 without stimulus money... It is a matter of jobs! The health and insurance reform is becoming a joke as there is a lack of details!

Hey, the figures the government releases are “the official un-employment rate,” also known as the Bureau of Labor Statistics “U-3” tally. The “U-3” tally is defined by the Bureau as: “Total unemployed, as a percent of the civilian labor force (official unemployment rate),” which for the month of October stands at 10.2%.

What they don’t tell you:

There are 6 official un-employment rates that the Bureau tracks. “U-1 through U-6.” Each having its own definition.

To really tell what is happening in the economy you need to look at the “U-6” rate defined as: “Total unemployed, plus all marginally attached workers, plus total employed part time for economic reasons, as a percent of the civilian labor force plus all marginally attached workers.” That rate for October 2009 stands at 17.5%. Go to:

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.t12.htm

Now what does that tell you about our economy?

Rabid: I covered the 17.5% number in my blog post. You are right.

As for "what does that tell you about our economy?" - The answer is blatantly simple, yet Obama has missed it... "Its the economy stupid!" is the answer that rings from the past.

Nobody is screaming for health care reform except the socialist left. Yes, we need reform, but its NOT #1 priority. Here are the priorities from #1 to 3.

1) Get Afghanistan straightened out and reinforce our troops

2) Jobs

3) Economic growth through tax cuts

Once these are done, whether we want to deal with health care reform, or illegals, or campaign finance reform (no corp/union/pacs) or some other item is perfectly debatable.

The reason he went for health care at the expense of the economy and jobs is that he is a socialist and health care is the golden path to socialism. It enables the government to get people where they want them, dependent on government.

It would be nice if President Obama would stop his two wars.

Y-S: BTW, excellent post!

Rabidog, Great post and thanks for the informative link. Skeptic, Pollwog and Bcapp1 are not going to like either your or Y-S posting is such terrible right wing irrelevant facts.... why heck all this debt is Bush's fault... Those friggin republicans did this to us ya know.

And how nice it is that the Democrats will vote in a health care package tomorrow (Saturday) that will possibly add another 1 trillion to our debt.

And Obama will again prove himself to be a LIAR when he said his cabinet will be the most transparent in U.S. History and all legislation will be posted on line for 72 hours prior to being voted on so the American People can read it. Well it is not going to be posted and most of our elected officials will not even have time to read the 2000 page bill before they even vote on it. Pelosi/Reid and clan are going to ram this legislation down out throats for they are the all knowing Kings and Queens of our Government and we surfs are not even worthy of knowning what they are doing.

Chase...... Bcapp will look at it in a logical ( and add addtional info ) way... Polly is more neutral .... Skeptic will not like it as Y_S posted it!

Oh... and Bcapp will say sign of saying Thank you Bcapp1 :)

chase2you,

Do you think I'm a liberal? Really?

Sincerely,

Robert Capp

"Sincerely,

Robert Capp" Well... I knew it would be nice :)

BC: Do I think you are a liberal...not sure, but based on reading your prior posts here on the AJ. We just have different opinions on things. BTW, I apologized to you on another post here on the AJ.

YEA, the health care bill is finally going to be voted on. Wait, that's according to YS. Today it was announced that the Obama administration has lowered individual and small business taxes. 650,000 jobs created and saved is a start in the right direction. Obama doesn't have a magic wand so don't expect recovery in such a short period of time.

And don't forget that it took the Culture of Corruption eight hard years to get us where we are. Let's see how the president does by the end of his two terms.

Skeptic...and you think things have really changed? The only thing that has changed... is some of the players and some of the faces...the money is still flying so fast out of the government trough...nobody can even recognize it as money anymore.... much less even attempt to know where all this money is going and or to whom it is going too.... We will all soon be getting into designated lines.....one for those that are entitled and one for those that are not entitled....these lines A & B of course will be based on your current education levels and or supposed worth....

Chuxxr: LOL, 650,000 jobs created or saved..... I would like to see the exact, verifiable stats on that one.... Created or Saved sounds like answereing a yes or no question with a maybe. So we have lost 3 million jobs in the past year or so, so I guess we are only down 2.3 million jobs... WOW that is impressive.

What ever happened to Obamas promise that unemployment would not excede 8%? Now that it is over 10.2% nation wide. So I guess we are only above by 2.2% WOW that is impressive only off by 2.2% and 2.3 million jobs so far... looking good at the end of his first year, can't wait to see the results of the second year.... not

Chase...I think there are 136 million people employed in jobs or who file tax returns out of 307 million citizens... hmmmm I guess these numbers look a little upside down.....that means 181 million citizens have no jobs....Hmmmm. So now lets look at the unemployment if the government workforce is equal to about 16% of the total job work force or 22 million employed by governments....10.2% x 136 million work force =13,872.000 out of work...this number does not include those that have dropped off benefits which takes it to about 15 million...or some are saying about 17.8% total people out of full time work positions. If 17.8% is used then we have 17.8% x 136 million or 24,2080,000 out of work....that would mean we now have only 112 million people supporting all aspects of government budget and expenditures...while 195 million are not paying any taxes at all and or are un or under employed and not supporting the government budgets....

If jobs where saved anywhere...they where actually saved inside the government sector by using tarp funds to reinforce state and federal government budget shortfalls in order to maintain current government payrolls...a storm is approaching.....

I have heard some complaints that I post too much here, but I wanted to inform the leftists here that my posts "not posted" have increased substantially over the last few months. Had I not "not posted" these posts, we would have had 650,000 more posts.

Now, demonstrate that I would have posted those posts...and while you are at it, demonstrate that the jobs "saved" were really not lost.

Chase...here is your jobs..

http://www.redorbit.com/news/business/1759034/federal_jobs_increase_with_stimulus_funds/index.html

Am I the only one who finds it interesting that the last time unemployment was this high Ronald Reagan was president?

billy: You are right. He cut taxes and jobs increased.

Next point?

National debt Sept. 30, 1980 (before Reagan): $907.7 billion

National debt Sept. 30, 1988 (end of Reagan): $2.6 trillion

http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm

Unemployment went up steadily the first two years of Reagan's presidency. Then it went down. You can attribute it to whatever you want. Normal business cycles. Or something else.

Here are the numbers under Clinton:

Jan 1993: 7.3%

Jan 2001: 4.2% Less than when Reagan left office.

To what would you attribute Clinton's success?

Actually, maybe it was tax cuts. After all, under Reagan you had a much higher marginal tax rate (I believe 50% for people making over 200k, correct me if I'm wrong) than under Clinton or now Obama.

Bottom line... the government can not really create any jobs...the government can only consume resources and money they did not produce or earn...by collecting this money from private tax payers....Let us say I had a job and my job was to just spend money...I produced nothing and sold nothing and had no commerce involved with my spending function...and I was told to spend all the money that I just received and or collected and or took away from others who actually worked... taxpayers... who actually do produce and sell things and do real commerce....now I was then told that if I needed more money not to worry about it...just spend all of it and when you need more we will pass laws and just take more from the taxpayers...they have to follow all our tax laws because we are the ones that write them. Then I tell the powers to be.. I have spent all I can and I now have excess money and what do I do?...the powers to be say....create new paid positions, projects, social programs.....just give it away...just spend it all by doing what ever you want to with the money. So now you see how it got out of control...most of what the government does do...is not required and once you extrapolate the reality of no top end to forced taxation income and uncontrolled spending...you end up with tons of programs and positions and waste inside all government that we do not need....just like a virus that is out of control and that just wants to eat.... more and more and more............the end

bcapp1 is a liberal?!!? Ha, ha, ha!!!!

chase2you,

When I read that I nearly spit my coffee across the room. ;-) Sorry!

The one thing we have no good way of tracking accurately is the total number of self-employed people who are also now "unemployed".

Unemployment numbers are tracked via payroll reports and self-employed folks don't pay their taxes that way. So there's no way for the government to truly know, let alone include, the total number of people "unemployed" during this recession.

If the self-employed among us were counted in that "unemployed" total, then it would be far greater than what we're already seeing.

gregcalac,

Guess what, I was even more surprised than you with that thought. (think of the mess I made spitting out my diet Dr. Pepper)

Have a great evening,

bob

My memory is failing me I think. How high did One Big Awful Mistake America mmm mmm mmm PROMISE our unemployment rate would not exceed; if his stimulus package was passed? Could one of you libs out there remind me please?

"The reason he went for health care at the expense of the economy and jobs is that he is a socialist and health care is the golden path to socialism. It enables the government to get people where they want them, dependent on government."--Y Sam

Solution?!?

If you get a welfare check, you can't vote!

Get a job, pay you bills and taxes, you can vote!

Voters would have a vested interest in a healthy economy instead of the life style of welfare and extended dependency.

And while I'm on it.....that welfare check, it will be in your mailbox after your community service work record adds up to 40 hrs per for the week.

Imagine....500,000 excerise bikes all routed into one big generator and out to the grid!!!!!!!

Call Al Gore....sounds green to me!

chemicalbilly, who preceded Ronald Reagan? Did he inherit a recession, double digit inflation and mortgage rates as high as 14%? Did he whine about his inheritance? You really have to look at the big picture. Personally that's past but you Obama followers don't seem to be able to break loose.

Yes, he increased the National Debt, he also did away with the Soviet Union and at the very least we don't have to listen to the air raid sirens being tested any more.

So you call the bad as normal business cycle but when your party is in power it becomes the preceding Administration's fault, of course they were te "other party".I attribute Clinton's success to the fact that he had a Republican majority on both houses for the last six years of his Presidency, the first two were ho hum at best.

Any more questions? Mike Gruber, very good post. And if I may add, there is no methodology other than BS to quantify jobs saved. It is not taught in any economics classes because it doesn't exist, there is no way to prove or disprove those claims other than the jobless rate which is at an all time high, beyond the great depression.

Want to improve the econom? Cut the private sector loose, they will get it done as they have in all other recessions. Want Socialism? Stay the course Obama has set.

Last but not least, Bob Capp a liberal?

Ok Mike Gruber, how many of those welfare recipients are YOU going to hire? How many jobs are YOU going to create?

Get a job, yup, just like that. All of the people that are currently unemployed must be deadbeats and want to do nothing but wait by the mailbox for their next check to show up.

I have no problem with community service, in fact I think there is something to be said for it. 40 hours of community service doesn't leave much time for looking for/applying for work. Unless of course they do their community service at night, 'cause we know these people without jobs must all be doing drugs and staying up all night anyway.

You have a job don't you Mike? Good for you.

billy, do you really want to discuss national debt? I posted a blog item on that earlier.

For the record, I never said Bcapp1 was a liberal. If you read my responses:

1st post: Bcapp1 and others are not going to like Rabidogs and Y-S first post. No mention of anyone being a liberal

2nd post: BC: Do I think you area liberal.....not sure, We just have different opinions on things... No mention of BC being a liberal.

So I have no idea where this, I think BC is a liberal is coming from.

Enjoy the Foggy day all

The funny thing about terms like Liberal, Conservative...they are very much based on the time in history.

Technically, an economic liberal would believe in market forces driving the economy rather than the government.

A social liberal would believe in "let it all hang out" and not want government intruding into anything personal, even if it was bad for society as a whole.

While I claim to be a conservative, I am doing it within the context of today's definitions. I am actually a moderate on economics, believing in a role of government to regulate free market activity to ensure it is legal and ethical, but staying out of the production or distribution of goods and services.

On the social side, I am pretty moderate as well. I believe that what people do in the privacy of their homes is outside of my concern whether it be smoking/growing dope, or having wild sex parties. On the other hand, I think government has a role in establishing norms that are conducive to a positive and healthy society. Things that people do which are unhealthy should not be promoted. Obviously, promoting bad behavior should not be condoned by government thus making sale of drugs illegal, and homosexual marriage unacceptable.

So, if I am a moderate, what does that make you? :)

chase2you, when did Obama make a promise that UE #'s would be anything? Speculation? Please provide your source.

YS, Reagan increased taxes on all of US. Quit making stuff up. Oh that's right. You repeat lies until they are become true to the ignorant.

Mike Grubber, You would have a poll tax. Your reasoning shows why states would misbehave if left to their own devices. I do agree that people should work for welfare. There are many that cannot provide and do need assistance. I don't want the US to abandon these people. 500,000 exercise bikes? That's funny.

Greg, The self employed are exactly that "self employed" They are not unemployed, they are "self employed." They need to try harder if they are suffering or sell all their equipment, if they cannot compete. You believe that those that take the risks (lol) deserve the rewards:-D

Mike...where do we all sign the petition to change the laws so all voting is a poll tax..those that produce vote.. those that don't produce don't vote...

sounds American to me...

Rolandmc,

Mike Gruber is an electrical contractor, and I am a plastering contractor. We share at least one thing in common.

When we finish one job we are automatically looking for another.

We take risks by investing money into equipment and materials, and we carry insurance that normal people are not required to buy. As soon as I put materials onto a building they become the property of the customer, even if that person comes out and actually tells me he has no intentions of paying when the work is completed.

The benefit of being a contractor is the ability to place a "lien" on a customer's property if he/she doesn't pay. But that by itself does not mean you'll collect either. So it's a risk that many people are not willing to take.

I'm not complaining about any of this, it just seems that people like ChuxxR don't seem to understand that being "self employed" does not allow you to collect "unemployment benefits", so I'm going into basic detail for people like him. When self employed people are not working they have no income coming in. Sure, I could go out and sell equipment if I need cash, but there aren't too many people buying construction equipment these days, so that's a dumb idea.

I have work, and I'm thankful for that, but not everyone is that fortunate. I've been here in Placer County 30+ years and I guess that counts for something.......

......if you add those people who are not contractors but have lost their business income for any reason, then you'll see there are more people unemployed than the government figures reflect.

ChuxxR, Being self employed is not for everyone because of the risks and hard work that are inherently part of the deal. I'm curious why you think it's so easy?

Oh, and ChuxxR, it's not my belief that those who take the risks deserve the rewards, that's a fact of life. You shouldn't need to be taught that.

Rolandmc,

It sounds like you're irritated with Mike. He's just kidding around. ;-)

Like I said before, Mike is out there like every other contractor looking for work daily. He doesn't "have" a job, he bids on work and "persuades" new customers that he is the best value for the money they have to spend on his services. There is no guarantee he'll be working tomorrow or the next day. Don't you realize that?

Greg, there is a very good chance that those that criticize the self employed have never dealt with the bad parts that come with owning your own business. Most people think that since you're the boss you can sleep until 11:00AM, go to work for an hour or so, go have a few drinks and then collect all the money that the slaves make for you. They don't think about that truck transmission that will cost $3 K to fix or the order of watshacallits that cost over $15 K or the rent for the business site and on and on and oh wait, got to make payroll yet, yeah, no one works for free.

My hat's off for those that take risks and provide jobs, may you enjoy the fruits of your labor.

Y_S get back to me when the rest of the stimulous money is spent.

Thank you, loomis.

Most people would freak out the first Friday they had to make payroll for their employees. And then they'd just recover from that trauma, and it would be FRIDAY AGAIN!

chrissham: Where did that money come from?

greg, I know you work extra hard to have a successful business. However, you don't fit in the equation when as loomisresident says "collect all the money that the slaves make for you." Minimum wage for example is slave wages. Union scale is a living wage. Obscene profits are just that.

Rolandmc--

I will never hire anyone, but I create sometimes 3 or 4 jobs daily, for myself. I never said "all" unemployed folks are "deadbeats".

My point is that if you are living off the government (tax payer dollars that you did not contribute to) then you should not be able to vote for the leaders of that government. Call it a "conflict of interest" of sorts.....There will still be welfare, and those using it by its original design and others as a lifestyle, but, politicians won't be able to use those folks to gain power.

Among several other things, secure our borders, crush illegal immigrantion, deport illegal labor, and heavily fine and/or shut down businesses that use all of the above.

How many jobs did I just create?

ChuxxR--

It's Gruber. Since I have the guts to use my real name the least you could do is spell it correctly.

Obewan--

America 1776 or 2009?

Gregcalac--

Good posts. I'm unemployed the second I put the last cover plate on a job. And unemployed while I drive to the next one, then I am employed again for a few hours. Then unemployed again as I swing in to top the truck off at the supliers, do 2 estimates on my way home, and even for the hours of paperwork and bids into the night. Sometimes it takes a 100+hr work week just to get 40 hrs of "employment"....

I know you understand this....

Being self-employed means you have a great boss, but the hours suck. I pay minimum wage because the work my employees do can be learned in about 30 minutes. Most of my employees are high school students living at home. Almost 24% of their wages go to the government in the form of payroll taxes. I encourage my employees to go to college so they can get more skilled jobs and pay. Unskilled manufacturing jobs are out sourced because of Union actions.

Jon, how do you encourage one "to go to college so they can get more skilled jobs and pay." Obviously you consider minimum wage a punishment. How long it takes to learn a job has nothing to do with the monetary value of an employee's contribution.

Mike, I misspelled your name. Sorry. BTW the hours you spend between jobs count as employment. Everyone else considers bids, client relationships and driving to be part of the job. It's your problem if you don't consider that part of being employed.

Chux is my real name, fool, and R is the first initial of my last name. The second "x" is just filler. If you had the guts to show up at one of our blogger coffee meetings you would know who I was.

ChuxxR,

I know you mean well, but you aren't being realistic with your constant call for everyone to receive union wages for all jobs. Most of the time the wages you can pay your employees is set by the market. If JonGreen had to pay $20 per hour for someone to pick up golf balls on his driving range he wouldn't be able to remain in business. You might say, 'too bad for Jon', but that's not the answer.

The amount of time it takes to learn a job is always a major factor when it comes to pay level. You know this!

If you were to join the union in a quest to become an electrician, you would start at an entry level of pay. As an entry level union apprentice you would be paid a percentage of what a journeyman earns. As you progress through the apprenticeship, you move up the ladder of pay scale until one day, after a prescribed amount of time, you reach the "journeyman" level.

I suppose that's pretty much what you did in your field as well, right?

To learn how to run around a driving range picking up "range balls" for JonGreen I suppose you could say the apprenticeship is much, much shorter! Say, about thirty minutes! Problem is, the journeyman level of pay in that field (no pun intended) is minimum wage.

We need a mandatory Coffee Meeting and all the people who've never shown up in the past MUST attend. Chase2you, MikeGruber, Glennmeadowvista, loomisresident, Skeptic, MRex, gulliver, J_P, Pollywog, Rolandmc, Y_S, …

.....chemicalhillbilly, C_R, Fourgen, Steelybob, kittyv, Rabidog, Ishmael, .....and everyone else I can't remember right this minute.

bcapp1, we'll talk about this next time I see you in person. I was shopping at a local business last night when I saw a shady character dashing through the parking lot. My radar came on and I began tracking this dark figure. I shouted out a basic suburban greeting in an effort to draw this night crawler's attention. Turns out is was Patrick50! What a lurker!

For those of you who have no idea who this person is, come to our next coffee meeting and you'll find out. A few years ago we were talking quite often about taxes and tax rates, and all that stuff that goes with it, and Patrick had some very passionate opinions. He let it be known that part of the reason for his blogging handle is due to his age. Hence Patrick50. I began calling him Pat25 in reference to how much our pay is reduced due to paying taxes.

Later he had a birthday and turned 51. I changed his name as well. Now, and until he turns 52, I refer to him as, "Pat25.5. Next year he'll become, "Pat26!

I was glad to find out you weren't out stealing hubcaps when I saw you last night, Patrick!

"Chux is my real name, fool, and R is the first initial of my last name"

Chux Fool R______? I didn't catch that last name....

So I guess I'm empolyed 24/7.....wow, that will screw up a statistic.

I too see the Union mindset of your "suggestions". No wonder you want to clock running when you are doing nothing.

Why would it takes "guts" to show up at a blogger coffee gig?

Does someone bring a mechanical bull or something?

MikeGruber, for misreading your earlier comments I apologize...guess I didn't see the humor in it.

I understand the plight of the self-employed. I owned my own business from 1983 - 1991. I grew it from a 1 person operation to employing 4 others when I sold it. I was married to my business and it almost cost me my wife. I have the utmost respect for those that are self-employed.

I have also been employed by others and unemployed. I can't or shouldn't speak for anyone else...I just know people take a swipe at those that are unemployed...I see it and have felt it. Just go get a job. Just move to where the work is. Just...

My swipe with a big brush is this. If the jobs were there, most people that have become unemployed as a result of this economy would rather be working.

"If the jobs were there, most people that have become unemployed as a result of this economy would rather be working."--Rolandmc

I agree with that.

Unemployment and welfare can and do get used as intended.

Unfortunately I believe it has become the exception and not the rule. It has grown into a social class, a lifestyle, and in such numbers that politicians are doing the two-step for their votes.

And to keep my big brush out a bit longer, since we are both aware of it's overkill, I'll add I that unless we remove these bogus avenues being used by politiians to gain power we will remain leaderless and our system demands good ones. This free-for-all on both sides needs to be written into law and abolished or we are in for it.

Thanks for your thoughts on this....